Rust

[Sared]

From the sound of it, Rust++ added a bunch of wimpy cheat commands anyway. Vanilla, or an entirely different server mod sounds worthwhile to investigate.

[Lithium]

How about we buy a server? That way we control when things wipe. We control the mods, and settings. It'll be like $20-$30 a month. I'll cover the cost but offer PayPal donations if you'd like to chip in $5.

[Sared]

Shut up and take my $5 before I have more bills come in.

[likwidtek]

Seriously.  Vanilla!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, I support us buying a server but a couple things I think need to be said STRONGLY.

If we admin the server, we may never ever ever spawn in a single item.  Ever.  No matter what.  We will not be able to remove a single item, no matter what.  Ever.  Seriously, anyone who ran a minecraft server knows the temptation and how it wrecks the fun and the entire game.  Admin abuse sucks bad but ruining the game for yourself sucks worse.

If you're at a point of "sigh, I need 2000 more metal to do X..."  You can choose to spend 6 hours gathering, or just spawn it in.  Think about it.

Another thing.  There are some TERRIBLE server companies out there right now.  One in particular, I think it's a 4 letter acronym with an H in front, I don't remember.  But there are just shit tons of complaints of this one server company in particular giving you service for a month, and then "randomly" the account will get DDOS'd and the company tries to upsell them on DDOS protection for $50.  It sounds like a scam, so we need to research it perfectly.

But seriously.  Vanilla.  So very much Vanilla.  Granted, having doorshare on would be nice.  But no /location no /players no /starter all that stuff takes away from the game I think. 

:/

Just my vote.  But yeah, I'll help pay for the server too as long as it meets the majority of the above.

[likwidtek]

Adding to the above, going further, it would be good to research if there's a logging system to keep us accountable on the not using admin powers.  No teleporting, no spawning, no removing structures, if there's a way to log every single admin command, and keep it public for us all to see, (and maybe even all members of the server) that would be some awesome transparency. 

Looks at all of the rust forums, the complaints all come from admin abuse and shit server hosting.

ok sorry, I think that's it. 

[Sared]

I'm with Likwid on his above posts. I think a real opportunity exists for us to establish a name for ourselves for running a straightforward, honest server. If this means getting trounced on our own backyard a couple times by more dedicated groups of players then so be it.

[Tbone]

I personally think having our own server will ruin some of the fun, even unintentionally. For instance, even doing legit admin stuff like checking to see if someone is hacking would mean that you now know where that person's base is.

[Lithium]

Me and (maybe?) Tbone would be the only admin. No admin cheating is a given. This is a non-issue. We have never cheated in our history of gaming. The only time admin is used will be to investigate hackers and change server settings that are agreed upon by all.

Face it chances are most servers will have shit admins and/or random wipes and rule changes. We are going to do a ton of work for nothing. And official servers will be greif and hack central because they are understaffed and overpopulated.

[Lithium]

Another thing.  There are some TERRIBLE server companies out there right now.  One in particular, I think it's a 4 letter acronym with an H in front, I don't remember.  But there are just shit tons of complaints of this one server company in particular giving you service for a month, and then "randomly" the account will get DDOS'd and the company tries to upsell them on DDOS protection for $50.  It sounds like a scam, so we need to research it perfectly.

HFBServers? They were on my list but I haven't done a thorough search history of the providers yet. If there are recommendations I'm all ears.

[likwidtek]

Another thing.  There are some TERRIBLE server companies out there right now.  One in particular, I think it's a 4 letter acronym with an H in front, I don't remember.  But there are just shit tons of complaints of this one server company in particular giving you service for a month, and then "randomly" the account will get DDOS'd and the company tries to upsell them on DDOS protection for $50.  It sounds like a scam, so we need to research it perfectly.

HFBServers? They were on my list but I haven't done a thorough search history of the providers yet. If there are recommendations I'm all ears.

That's the one I hear THE most complaints about on reddit and the facepunch forums. 

Also, looks like door share more than likely won't be added to Vanilla.  https://twitter.com/playrust/status/431854612073951232

[Manic Velocity]

You can manage to build the biggest and baddest fort on the map whether you control the server or not.  But there is someone out there who will come along, take one look at your fort and say "Challenge accepted."  Everything you spend time harvesting and crafting can and eventually will be taken from you.  Whether by raiders or by a server wipe.  You're not meant to keep your stuff forever.

The only way to change that is to operate in god-mode which, as we've established, ruins the experience.

And... I'll just say it... Harvesting is not fun.  Not just in Rust, but in any game.  Constant harvesting to build a gigantic door-maze-fort that's always getting raided before it's complete is not fun.  And continuously harvesting and re-building after each subsequent raid is not fun.  It's work.  And each raid just creates more work.  Maybe you guys enjoy it?  I personally don't.

Of all the Rust gameplay videos I've watched over the last few days, there hasn't been a single one that focused primarily on a few guys chopping rocks to build an uber-base.  Nobody wants to watch that video because that video wouldn't be fun to watch.  All the fun gameplay consists of people going out and interacting with other players in weird and creative ways.  Like the two that likwid posted earlier.  I was laughing my ass off at those.

What I wasn't laughing at was manually unlocking each and every single one of the doors in our base.  In fact I couldn't wait to get out of there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm just not interested in dominating on any particular server.  Even if it's our own. 

[likwidtek]

Maybe we could look into not building a mega fortress, but a mega wall that incloses a small village or city.

Basically a huge square that we all could build out own mini bases in.  Not only would it make us more modular (spread all the goods out across more enclosed houses) but it could also let us all have some freedom to build out own cool stuff.

Basically we all could pay in some resources to help keep the outer defences up, maybe add some sniper towers along the walls, but then use our own resources to do what we want with.

We could even go as far as to have a store, where we can buy stuff like premade guns and just trade the mats plus a little extra if we don't have blueprints for things.  It would let us be a little independant, spread all the goodies across more homes, and let us make a cool little community village thing just for us?  I dunno what do you think?

[Tbone]

You can manage to build the biggest and baddest fort on the map whether you control the server or not.  But there is someone out there who will come along, take one look at your fort and say "Challenge accepted."  Everything you spend time harvesting and crafting can and eventually will be taken from you.  Whether by raiders or by a server wipe.  You're not meant to keep your stuff forever.

The only way to change that is to operate in god-mode which, as we've established, ruins the experience.

And... I'll just say it... Harvesting is not fun.  Not just in Rust, but in any game.  Constant harvesting to build a gigantic door-maze-fort that's always getting raided before it's complete is not fun.  And continuously harvesting and re-building after each subsequent raid is not fun.  It's work.  And each raid just creates more work.  Maybe you guys enjoy it?  I personally don't.

Of all the Rust gameplay videos I've watched over the last few days, there hasn't been a single one that focused primarily on a few guys chopping rocks to build an uber-base.  Nobody wants to watch that video because that video wouldn't be fun to watch.  All the fun gameplay consists of people going out and interacting with other players in weird and creative ways.  Like the two that likwid posted earlier.  I was laughing my ass off at those.

What I wasn't laughing at was manually unlocking each and every single one of the doors in our base.  In fact I couldn't wait to get out of there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm just not interested in dominating on any particular server.  Even if it's our own. 

People like to play different ways. Some people don't have the patience for a team effort towards team goals. Something like a metal fortress requires a group of dedicated people all working towards a common goal. A game like Rust doesn't have a lot of groups like that, but that's how FA has always been.

There's something satisfying in building something that will make people say "who are those guys" or "I don't want to fuck with them" or "Let's go fuck with them holy shit we're out of C4". But I suppose if you're looking for instant gratification, something more like a first person shooter, or you're looking to do something that's going to get views on YouTube, there are going to be things you'd rather focus on.

I will say if you don't like the cycle of building, getting raided, and rebuilding, quit Rust now. Go ahead and stop. Unless you're content with running around with a rock while getting sniped in the head, or unless you're willing to put forth an effort to have a base that can be defended, you will find yourself gathering and crafting to gear up, going and dying, then going back to re-gear just to find all your stuff is gone, and doing the process all over again. The game is 90% gathering/building and 10% losing everything you've gathered and built..lol. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - I'm just saying if you're not willing to do it, find something else.

Now all of that said, I'm not building another fucking metal base. Fuuuuck that. We can make something smaller but still defensible out of wood using a few of the techniques we've learned in less than a day. I enjoyed building the first base and defending off hackers, but I want to get to the offensive stuff much quicker next go round and I don't want to be demanding metal from you guys for another week solid.

[Manic Velocity]

I'm all for the cycle of building, attacking, defending, and setting long term goals.  Compared to that other game I play, Rust is a cakewalk in every regard. 

It just seemed like the primary goal for the group was to get the gigantic base built before we even considered doing anything else.  The cycle consisted of "build, sleep, and re-build".  The base would get raided while everyone slept, and so the next day would be spent making up for whatever was lost in the raid.  Rinse, repeat. 

I like likwid's idea of keeping things smaller and manageable.  A smaller camp is more easily raided, but it's also more easily replenished. 

[Erathaol]

To be fair, that was the primary goal AT THE TIME.  We'd already been playing a bit when you showed up, and the giant fuck-off metal base was in response to some very aggressive raiders.

I'm all for the large compound idea.  Since basically anything can and will be raided, why not construct a village/compound that's pleasing to the eye and actually enjoyable to spend time in?  We can still use all the clever anti-raiding techniques on the outer defenses and a few key storehouses/arsenals, but then the other buildings can be whatever the hell we want.

Also, small hidden caches seem to be the safest.  Out of all our bases, the ONLY ones not raided ever were mine and Mushrumz that we built squirreled away in the mountains.
 I've also been finding a few locations that are straight up caves sizing from 1x1 to even 1x3 at the largest, with room at the back beyond foundations.  More testing is required on a creative server to see what can fit and what can't, but the idea of hiding gear in small spread out hidey-holes combined with a large compound/village seems the most fun while staying relatively raid-resistant.