Politics

[Venlar]

What sickens me the most about this election cycle though is the blatant attempts at voter suppression all in the name of eliminating voter fraud. Not only is voter fraud incredibly rare but is almost never perpetrated by an individual in person so these new laws will have no impact on the actual statistics. If you want to take a look at them I recomend this article from the NYU school of law.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

Now what's scary about this is all the states that have enacted these laws have seen huge drop offs in registration for the democrats. You can take a look at the numbers in florida here.
 http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-27/story/democratic-registration-all-dries-new-florida-laws

What's even worse now though is there has been a push to take enforcement of voting rights out of the hands of the federal government and be solely controlled and enforced by the states. This would ultimately allow states to circumvent constitutional amendments such as the 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments which deal with citizenship, race, sex, age, and poll taxes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/todd-akin-voting-rights_n_1810228.html

[likwidtek]

Corruption.

[Broin]

What sickens me the most about this election cycle though is the blatant attempts at voter suppression all in the name of eliminating voter fraud. Not only is voter fraud incredibly rare but is almost never perpetrated by an individual in person so these new laws will have no impact on the actual statistics. If you want to take a look at them I recomend this article from the NYU school of law.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

Now what's scary about this is all the states that have enacted these laws have seen huge drop offs in registration for the democrats. You can take a look at the numbers in florida here.
 http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-27/story/democratic-registration-all-dries-new-florida-laws

What's even worse now though is there has been a push to take enforcement of voting rights out of the hands of the federal government and be solely controlled and enforced by the states. This would ultimately allow states to circumvent constitutional amendments such as the 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments which deal with citizenship, race, sex, age, and poll taxes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/todd-akin-voting-rights_n_1810228.html

Ah trust me Voter fraud is RAMPANT in the country.  When you can explain to me how requiring an individual to have a nVALID ID showing your true STATE RESIDENCE and US CITIZENSHIP  to vote as suppresion then I'll lesson to your points.

Voting is not a right, it is a privledge.  It is the single most important privledge that a citizen has to inact change and get the persons they want in the  positions  necessary to inact the legislation they desire.  

Seeing how it is the most IMPORTANT privledge you would think it would be protected as such.  What is freakin' insane is that the same fools who yell and scream that you should be carding everyone who buys beer or cigarrettes to make sure the youth aren't hurting themselves yell and scream louder to keep the most important privledge we have from being protected.

Think of all the places you go or things you do that require VALID ID, but the most important thing you can do to inact true change in your life with elected officials is suppoused to be what?  Not as important.... Give me a fuckin break.

You need ID to

[likwidtek]

Ah trust me Voter fraud is RAMPANT in the country.

I'm interested in this.  Do you have any facts on this that you can share?  Seriously, not being shitty.  I hear people say it but have never seen facts.

[Broin]

The thing is, this guy Akin and Paul Ryan are co-sponsors on legislation about contraception, pregnancy and abortion.  See, if he were just some idiot who "mispoke" then that's one thing.  But these guys are self-proclaimed experts on the subject.  So much so, they want to create laws regarding this matter that impact every Man, Woman and Child living in the United States.

Ignorance, stupidity, retardation, misunderstanding... I don't care.  If you're going to try and make laws about a topic you damn well better know your shit.  Which obviously this guy doesn't.  

Whether you're pro-life or pro-choice shouldn't matter.  This is a guy who obviously didn't understand the subject matter in which he was attempting to legislate.  Make sense?

If you don't like the legislation then don't vote for him or others who believe like him... That simple.  But what the rest of the comments on him are just a bunch of BS.  If you don't agree with him that's fine, but there are millions of people who agree with him, and his legislation.  

I would bet that you don't even know what the legislation is even about.  I would guess you are just hearing what everyone else is saying and spewing out about it.  

As far as him trying to inact legislation at least he is doing it the right way instead of circumventing the process and passing shit that most US citizens didn't want... OBAMA CARE anyone?

As far as the PRO CHOICE crowd the thing I find most ridiculous about them is that they are not about CHOICE.  They are just like most Dems and Libs .... If you don't believe the way they believe or chose the choice they want you to chose then you are a bigot, racist, hater, idiot, etc., ect., etc.,  

Like T the other night and his stupid ass comments about the RNC convention... Hateful worthless comments that he doesn't even realize are hateful.  "Oh look they are putting the black people up front to make it look like..."  

Half of you guys are so damn blinded by the spewing crap that you've swallowed that you don't see that the hate and vile you throw out to bethe same  hate and vile you accuse the other side of doing.  In your minds it isn't, WHY?  Because the other guy does'nt agree with you... So therefore it is okay to hate on them.

Like the dumbass from AOL/ABC that got canned....   I always hear you guys bitching and moanin about FOX news and all what not... Tell me the last time one of them got caught saying something like what that dumbass said.  Hell last night I switched to MSNBC after the speech to here some dumbass tell me how the whole speech was rasict becuase it was directed at rich white people... WTF are you kidding me?    

You know what I say we do... I say we hook all these so called news casters and people up to lie detectors and electric chairs.  Each time they lie or put a falsehood out there they get shocked to death.  If that happened MSNBC, NBC, CNN, and ABC would be emptied of staff in 24 hours.

[Venlar]

What sickens me the most about this election cycle though is the blatant attempts at voter suppression all in the name of eliminating voter fraud. Not only is voter fraud incredibly rare but is almost never perpetrated by an individual in person so these new laws will have no impact on the actual statistics. If you want to take a look at them I recomend this article from the NYU school of law.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

Now what's scary about this is all the states that have enacted these laws have seen huge drop offs in registration for the democrats. You can take a look at the numbers in florida here.
 http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-27/story/democratic-registration-all-dries-new-florida-laws

What's even worse now though is there has been a push to take enforcement of voting rights out of the hands of the federal government and be solely controlled and enforced by the states. This would ultimately allow states to circumvent constitutional amendments such as the 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments which deal with citizenship, race, sex, age, and poll taxes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/todd-akin-voting-rights_n_1810228.html

Ah trust me Voter fraud is RAMPANT in the country.  When you can explain to me how requiring an individual to have a nVALID ID showing your true STATE RESIDENCE and US CITIZENSHIP  to vote as suppresion then I'll lesson to your points.

Voting is not a right, it is a privledge.  It is the single most important privledge that a citizen has to inact change and get the persons they want in the  positions  necessary to inact the legislation they desire.  

Seeing how it is the most IMPORTANT privledge you would think it would be protected as such.  What is freakin' insane is that the same fools who yell and scream that you should be carding everyone who buys beer or cigarrettes to make sure the youth aren't hurting themselves yell and scream louder to keep the most important privledge we have from being protected.

Think of all the places you go or things you do that require VALID ID, but the most important thing you can do to inact true change in your life with elected officials is suppoused to be what?  Not as important.... Give me a fuckin break.

You need ID to

I'll trust you on voter fraud being rampant in the country if you can show me evidence that it is. All the statistics I have seen show that it's .0002% - .0009% of votes that are fraudulent and the vast majority of which are absentee ballots that don't require someone to be in person to vote.

I disagree that voting is not a right. It is referred to as a right in the 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th amendments. Please explain why you believe it is a privilege and not a right as an American citizen.

The argument that we have to use ID for so many other things in this country is false logic. The same argument can be used to justify the requirement for ID in every other aspect of our lives in this country. That simply becomes a road towards a draconian society.

You also are ignoring the fact that the laws are a clear violation of the constitution. Particularly the 24th amendment which reads:
   
    "Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

    Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

If a U.S. Citizen does not have proper ID in the states that are passing these law then in order to vote they must pay a fee to the state in order to obtain the proper ID. This is a poll tax.

Also please don't give me the argument that people on welfare need id to cash their welfare checks. There are many other people out there without ID. MY 90 year old grandmother uses direct deposit for her SS and no longer drives so she doesn't have an ID. She's worked the polls all her life and if she were in a state with a voter ID law she would not be allowed to vote. Don't forget college students whom have out of state IDs that will not be accepted at the polls.

You also haven't addressed the voter purges in Florida which is disenfranchising thousands of voters and leaving them with no way of appeal.

[Da6onet]

Fun fact, it wasn't until the 14th amendment, 80 years after the initial drafting that we start to define what it means to be a U.S. citizen.

If a U.S. Citizen does not have proper ID in the states that are passing these law then in order to vote they must pay a fee to the state in order to obtain the proper ID. This is a poll tax.

Actually,
"The 2008 case Crawford v. Marion County Election Board ruled that an Indiana law that required voters to obtain and present picture identification such as a driver's license was constitutional because the Supreme Court found no substantial burden imposed on voters and preventing voter fraud was a valid governmental objective. The lawsuit continued in the 2010 case League of Women Voters, et al. v. Todd Rokita where the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that requiring photo identification for voting was within the legislature's power."

I have two thoughts on the matter.
1. Paying for an ID so you can vote is a tax and should have been ruled unconstitutional.
2. Since registering to vote is already free, why not beef up the requirements a little so that the voter registration card can be a form of identification? I think that would solve most of the complaints on both sides.

Personally I feel that people should have to pass some form of civics test before being allowed to register, but that really would be Draconian, albeit a chance for hilarity to ensue.

As for Florida, well, I think the country gave up on Florida after the hanging chads.

[Broin]

I'll trust you on voter fraud being rampant in the country if you can show me evidence that it is. All the statistics I have seen show that it's .0002% - .0009% of votes that are fraudulent and the vast majority of which are absentee ballots that don't require someone to be in person to vote.

I disagree that voting is not a right. It is referred to as a right in the 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th amendments. Please explain why you believe it is a privilege and not a right as an American citizen.

The argument that we have to use ID for so many other things in this country is false logic. The same argument can be used to justify the requirement for ID in every other aspect of our lives in this country. That simply becomes a road towards a draconian society.

You also are ignoring the fact that the laws are a clear violation of the constitution. Particularly the 24th amendment which reads:
   
    "Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

    Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

If a U.S. Citizen does not have proper ID in the states that are passing these law then in order to vote they must pay a fee to the state in order to obtain the proper ID. This is a poll tax.

Also please don't give me the argument that people on welfare need id to cash their welfare checks. There are many other people out there without ID. MY 90 year old grandmother uses direct deposit for her SS and no longer drives so she doesn't have an ID. She's worked the polls all her life and if she were in a state with a voter ID law she would not be allowed to vote. Don't forget college students whom have out of state IDs that will not be accepted at the polls.

You also haven't addressed the voter purges in Florida which is disenfranchising thousands of voters and leaving them with no way of appeal.

Do not take this the wrong way but Venlar you do not know what you are talking about.  There is no consitutional right to vote (.) <---- PERIOD.  The sections you are pointing out do not have to do with the right to vote but have to do with discrimination against individuals in regards to race, ethnicity, gender or creed.  They ARE NOT establishing the right to vote, but are clauses to prevent DISCRIMINATION against those who have the PRIVLEDGE to vote.    I will happily post the information that shows this.  But instead encourage you and EVERYONE else to LOOK IT THE F' UP instead of just believing what some freakin moroon professor or liberal hack job told you.

And the sheer idea that requiring someone to present valid ID and proof of citizenship is a path to draconian society is ridiculous... LOOK UP WHAT A DRACONIAN SOCIETY IS.  I mean a 5 year old child can see the ridiculousness of your argument.  "Oh, just because you have to have an ID to do 99% of the basic things to survive and get buy in life doesn't mean you should have to have an ID to do the one most important thing a US citzen could do."  Really?  Your going to go there?

I don't recall off hand but I'm guessing you are the guy/member who works for one of our friendly neighborhood Dems/Libs and have probalby swallowed hook line and sinker the BS they've been swillin'

I can probably guess which one based off of the silly Poll Tax arguement.  Please I mean give me a break... It's like Obama saying requiring people to buy health insurance isn't a tax, but then claiming it is.  It is not a poll tax... SHOW ME WHERE IT HAS BEEN DECLARED A POLL TAX.  It is not... It is a argument being used to try and prevent the most basic and simple of understanding about voting...

You should have to verify who you are.  Where you live.  And that you are a US citizen to vote.  A majority of the American by far know this should be the way it is... It is only the very few and hard core LIBS who fight against it.

And it is not the Federal Goverment that gives the individual citizens the privledge to vote... The STATES do(.) <------ PERIOD.   THE STATE IS THE ENTITY THAT GIVES THE INDIVIDUAL THE PRIVLEDGE TO VOTE (.) <===== PERIOD.

It has always been this way.... It will always be this way.... And if you do not understand that then you need to educate yourself more on the subject.

And I bet my immortal soul that youe 90 year old grandmother has an ID of some sort.  She wouldn't get her SSN / Medicaid / Medicare / Retirment / Bank Account /Nursing home services / Hospital Services /  Etc., etc, etc, without it.

You really want to put that to the test... It is simple.  You give me her full name, city, and state of residence and of course the OKAY, and I'll pull it up and post it for you.

[Broin]

Fun fact, it wasn't until the 14th amendment, 80 years after the initial drafting that we start to define what it means to be a U.S. citizen.

If a U.S. Citizen does not have proper ID in the states that are passing these law then in order to vote they must pay a fee to the state in order to obtain the proper ID. This is a poll tax.

Actually,
"The 2008 case Crawford v. Marion County Election Board ruled that an Indiana law that required voters to obtain and present picture identification such as a driver's license was constitutional because the Supreme Court found no substantial burden imposed on voters and preventing voter fraud was a valid governmental objective. The lawsuit continued in the 2010 case League of Women Voters, et al. v. Todd Rokita where the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that requiring photo identification for voting was within the legislature's power."

I have two thoughts on the matter.
1. Paying for an ID so you can vote is a tax and should have been ruled unconstitutional.
2. Since registering to vote is already free, why not beef up the requirements a little so that the voter registration card can be a form of identification? I think that would solve most of the complaints on both sides.

Personally I feel that people should have to pass some form of civics test before being allowed to register, but that really would be Draconian, albeit a chance for hilarity to ensue.

As for Florida, well, I think the country gave up on Florida after the hanging chads.

Another FUN FACT.  I do not know a single state that requires or is updating their voter laws to require ID to vote where they do not provide ID's for FREE to individuals such as Granny or your Welfare folks or anyone other individual or group that has been used as an excuse to oppose such laws.  Many States have huge initiatives spending millions of dollars to get ID's out to people.  

If you can find one that doens't have such programs you post it up here for my knowledge but I seriously doubt you find one.

[Tbone]

There's only one reason why voter ID laws are being put in place:



You can argue semantics all you want, but that's the REASON that these states are implementing these laws. 32 out of the 33 states implementing voter ID laws are Republican controlled.

Yes, this is a fictional show, but it uses real facts and makes some real good points:



86 cases of voter fraud. The whole thing is a joke. Requiring an ID to vote doesn't actually sound like a bad idea to me (we need it for everything else), but systematically using the law to exclude certain demographics from being allowed to vote since they aren't voting for your candidate is underhanded and wrong.

[Broin]

LOL a joke... you mean like using a fake show to try and prove a fact.  Keep trying but it is still so simple a kindergartener can understand it.  

Let go of your hate...

LOL seriously just looked at your first video.... that's what you are using?  Come on T you have to be joking?  

What liberal piece of crap website did you get that from?  Can you play the whole clip please.  I'm sure if you do you'll find he was talking about the fact that voter ID is necessary to keep fraud out of elections.

Which for Dems and Libs mean... No fraud no WIN

Oh and I'm not even going to bother with your second video... Not worth my time as it is a JOKE to even attempt to use it to prove a point.  Seriously, I bring you facts and you bring me some crap liberal show?

[NoCry]

Carry on please - why though do people assume that every payment to the government is a tax?

Do you not have to pay for your passports, driving licences (please note the correct spelling;))? - when you pay for them do you class them as a tax? If so, are they offset against your taxable income? If not, why not?

If not, why on earth is paying for an ID which proves you are a US citizen (and thus entitled to vote) deemed a tax and somehow being used as an argument that to have a paid ID is non-constitutional?

Further, if people are having the cost of this "id" paid for them - where on earth is the argument that this goes against the constitution?

The funny thing (looking in) - is that some are arguing that X weakans the constitition/ goes against the constitution - but surely the first test to determine whether or not you benefit from the protection is to determine that a person is a US citizen...

[Broin]

LOL...leave it to a Brit.  GOOD POINT MR ATTORNEY SIR

OH and they try to claim it is a tax because forcing a citizen to pay for something they dont want is unconstitutional....  Well unless it is the new Obama care tax....  Then they are all okay with it.

THEY ARE SO F'D UP THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARD COMING OR GOING NOWADAYS

[Da6onet]

If you can find one that doens't have such programs you post it up here for my knowledge but I seriously doubt you find one.

You were right, I retract the statement. I checked, all the states that have strict photo ID requirements offer a way to get ID's for voting for free. No need to steamroll me. Save your bullying for the Statists (aka democrats).

Carry on please - why though do people assume that every payment to the government is a tax?

Well lets not use the word tax, as that evokes forcible payment. I'll instead used the term burden. Yes we pay for all sorts of administrative fees, but they are not imposed on people automatically under penalty of law enforcement, they are self-imposed burdens. As such, it wouldn't make sense to offset them against taxable income (government imposed burden).

By making a photo ID something which you must have to execute your right to vote, if it were not free, that would mean the government is making you pay for a right, which goes against the idea of American freedom, and more to the point, our constitution. This is the same logic used by Chief Justice Roberts to rule Obamacare as constitutional as long as it is defined as a government imposed burden -- a tax. In his dissent he all but said that Obamacare tax was not good policy, alluding to the poll tax in my mind.

But since, as Broin pointed out, states with strict photo ID requirements have fee waivers, there is no grounds for constitutional argument on the basis of a poll tax.

I personally think it is a marvelous idea to prove you're a U.S. Citizen when you go to vote, I just didn't want it to go against the constitution. It doesn't so I'm happy. The people who bitch and moan about it are Democrats who need irresponsible/illegal/poor/senile people to vote for them. Voter ID laws should show noticeable drops in overall voter turnout, but the majority of that drop would have been blue voters.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Dems can be good for a handful of social legislation I'd like to see passed, but they always want to take control of the economy too. While I hate how much time Republican's spend on bible thumping, abortion, and guys having butt sex, there are enough young people in America who don't share those views that we'll eventually see progressive civil rights/social policies through attrition (as has been the case for hundreds of years now). In the mean time we need Republican economic strategies now more than ever (when I say that I don't mean Bush's pussy bailouts in 2008).

[Broin]

JESUS H. FUCKIN CHRIST... I AM GOING TO SAY THIS AGAIN FOR EMPHASIS

THERE IS NO RIGHT TO VOTE IN THE CONSTITUTION

STOP LISTENING TO IDIOTS WHO TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!  IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTIUTION THEY ARE EITHER

A) LYING TO YOU
OR
B) IGNORANT


SERIOUSLY I DON'T MEAN TO BEAT UP ON YOU OR OTHERS, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE TRUTH AND THE FACTS AND STOP ACCEPTING WHAT OTHERS HAVE WEASLED IN TO BE BELIEVED AS THE FACTS OR TRUTH.

AND I'M DOUBLY FUCKIN TIRED OF EVERY LAST TOM, DICK, AND WORTHLESS HARRY DEM/LIB WHO CRIES FOUL AND SITES SOME MADE UP OR IMAGINED RIGHT THEY THINK IS GUARANTEED TO THEM IN THE CONTSITUTION.

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO A GOOD JOB

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO GOOD PAY

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE IN A ATHEISTIC COUNTRY WHERE PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND GOVERMENT CAN NOT ACKNOWLEDGE GOD

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO FORCE RELIGIOUS INTITUTIONS TO PROVIDE HEALTHCARE THAT THEY DEEM TO BE AGAINST THEIR BELIEFS

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO GET MARRIED

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO FORCE RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS TO RECOGNIZE OUR MARRIAGE

OH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE

WHAT MOST OF THESE FOOLS HAVE IS THE RIGHT TO BE IGNORANT AND THEY ARE STEPPING UP TO THAT ONE IN FULL FORCE