Politics

[Sared]

It will be interesting to see how the country/world adapts to deal with an entire generation of unemployed/underemployed college grads with stupid amounts of debt. I fear nothing is going to change until it blows up in everyone's face.

There is hope though, I hear comments like this more often these days: "I'm starting to think it's Obama's fault I can't get a job. When Bush was in office (before my degree) I was able to get jobs with ease.

As an adult going back to school, I don't like this. I don't like this one bit.

[Adam]

WORTH A READ...
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes
to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18..
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and
seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a
curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said,'I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20. 'Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.The group
still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men
were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six
men - the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair
share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be
fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the
same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings)
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings)
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings)
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings)

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to
drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their
savings.

I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man, but he got $10!
Yeah, that's right, exclaimed the fifth man.
I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more Than I
That's true! shouted the seventh man.
Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?
The wealthy get all the breaks!
Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison.
We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man (the richest) didn't show up for drinks, so the
nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all
of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax
system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a
tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just
may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[NoCry]

But not France.

[Subb]

Have fun with Abu Hamza.

[Anamodiel]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_watched_as_terror_raged_AypAEEA9OK23rPf7Z5BHWO

Just in case anyone doesn't believe Broin.

[Da6onet]

http://freebeacon.com/china-to-shoot-at-high-frontier/?goback=%2Egde_3155519_member_176165411

I don't see an escalation of this for at least a decade, but the foundations are being laid now under Obama's watch. Of course the Chinese want him to be reelected, that way we'll be the only kids in the room following the rules while all hell breaks loose.

[Da6onet]

[Tbone]

"The 1% will no longer be the rich - they will be the very fast!" Haha

[Mharz]

WORTH A READ...
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes
to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18..
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

I don't know where you drink but where I'm from, and where I drink no one would EVER pick this system.  What most people would think is fair is for each man to pay for his beer and if they couldn't afford the beer they better head home and save up until they could.

Our tax system is TOTALLY BROKEN.  Considered to be one of the most oppressive tax systems in the world (last I checked we were #12) it is certainly one of the most complex.

Why is it so complex?  Social engineering.  Big government is financially manipulating you to live the life that they want you to.  To do the things they think are best.  If you invest in a house you get a break.  If you get married you get a break.  If you have kids, you get a break.  If you save money for retirement, you get a break.  If you buy a POS green car, you get a break.

The tax system isn't about paying for the government anymore (those tax law bastards can't do math anyway Trillions of dollars in debt) it's about control.  Plain and simple control.

Think about how much money we could save if we just said, "Everyone will now pay 17% flat tax."

IRS - Gone.  Hundreds of millions of dollars saved every year.

Tax law debates in government - Gone.  Millions more saved every year.

Tax accountants (sorry Ana) - Gone.  Millions more in GDP in the form of useful occupations every year.

Tax code updates - Gone.  Millions of dollars a years saved.

Tax prep time - Gone.  Tax = Income * 0.17 and done.

People don't agree to pay for beer tabs like that.  Why would they agree to be taxed like that?[/i]

[Anamodiel]

Our tax system is TOTALLY BROKEN.  Considered to be one of the most oppressive tax systems in the world (last I checked we were #12) it is certainly one of the most complex.

True, in regards to the total complexity and total brokenness of the system.

Why is it so complex?  Social engineering.  Big government is financially manipulating you to live the life that they want you to.  To do the things they think are best.  If you invest in a house you get a break.  If you get married you get a break.  If you have kids, you get a break.  If you save money for retirement, you get a break.  If you buy a POS green car, you get a break.

I don't think social engineering has very much to do with it. Your argument assumes that marriage and kids are primary reasons for pursuing these tax breaks. Instead, these tax breaks are a result of constituents asking for tax relief from tax burdens that they felt too high. People were getting married and having kids before the IRS came around. In addition, the thought behind some of the credits like the home mortgage deduction credit and the child tax credit were because those each cost a lot of money. I'll debate you on whether you should be able to deduct that from your AGI, but very few of the credits create social engineering. If anything, most of the credits and differing rate structures results from economic engineering.

Remember, the IRS has to fulfill the will of the Congress. The Congress, not the IRS, is responsible for the Code. The IRS simply implements the legislation put into place by the Congress and interprets the Congressional will. Sometimes, Tax Courts and the Appeal Courts disagree with the IRS' interpretation, but that's not that often. We haven't had a serious overhaul of the Internal Revenue Code since the '50's. There was a quasi-one done under Reagan, but it doesn't really count because it didn't completely re-organize everything. It just simplified some stuff but, overall, it continued the structure of the current Code and didn't truly eliminate anything.

The tax system isn't about paying for the government anymore (those tax law bastards can't do math anyway Trillions of dollars in debt) it's about control.  Plain and simple control.

That's a very cynical view. The IRC is incredibly complicated, but it's not meant to control us. It is actually there to collect tax revenue for the government. You're blaming different people for different problems. The IRS is there to collect tax revenue - plain and simple. It interprets the law passed by the Congress and the President and implements it in order to collect the way the law says that they have to. Who you should actually be mad at is the many different politicians on both sides of the aisle who have spent more than the IRS is taking in. Now, that is an issue I can get behind. I can also get behind the issue of too much regulation and code structure in the IRC and how it burdens small business growth.

Think about how much money we could save if we just said, "Everyone will now pay 17% flat tax."

IRS - Gone.  Hundreds of millions of dollars saved every year.

The IRS is one of the few revenue positive and revenue creating entities that the U.S. government is able to employ. It is one of the most efficient government entities that has ever existed. Getting rid of the IRS would mean that there would be no way to be sure that someone actually paid their 17% of their income. There would be no audits, and there would be no penalties for tax evasion. I view the IRS as one of the few government entities that is a necessary evil. Getting rid of our one major source of tax revenue would cause the US government to generate most of its income from tariffs. The average US tariff rate is about 4.3%. I will point to Smoot-Hawley to show you how dumb of an idea that would be to increase those tariffs.

Tax law debates in government - Gone.  Millions more saved every year.

Tax accountants (sorry Ana) - Gone.  Millions more in GDP in the form of useful occupations every year.

Tax code updates - Gone.  Millions of dollars a years saved.

Tax prep time - Gone.  Tax = Income * 0.17 and done.[/I]

Alright, if you're arguing for a flat tax, that's fine. I could get behind that. That would eliminate a lot of work and time. However, I don't think that it will happen for a very long time, if ever. So, I'd like to work in the world of reality. Simplify the tax code, and make it easier to understand.

Also, your argument for getting rid of tax accountants because it would increase the GDP is slightly off-kilter. The large majority of tax accountants are small business owners and, while they make a large amount of money, they spend a lot of it, too. They're in service industries, but they don't detract from the US GDP anymore than paying someone to rake your leaves does. You're still spending the money. It's just going to different people.

[Da6onet]

FairTax > All

Vote Libertarian

[Tbone]

[Broin]

Feel sorry for you guys.... YOU'RE FUCKED and you don't even know it yet.... GL to you

[Da6onet]

Here is how I predict the future of America, maybe not specifically under Obama's next four years, but this election has convinced me it's going to happen.
1. Rule of law will become more of a suggestion of law.
2. The idea that the individual is greater than the government will be officially fall into extremist thinking.
3. The Republican party will become irrelevant in our new statist society, instead we will have the liberal party and the flaming liberal party.
4. Monetary collapse.

[Lithium]

I think the market picked it's winner and loser today. Biggest drop of the year. Well, there disappears a 3rd of my capital gains this year. I suppose my future income is poised to help the pits of society rather than build my own wealth that I worked damn hard for.

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