Politics

[likwidtek]

Personally I'm not sure what needs to be done but any of you guys who live here in the states who actually pay for your medical insurance can all agree that SOMETHING is broken and SOMETHING has got to give.  I have no idea if the mandate will drive costs down but if it doesn't something needs to give.

I have really really great medical coverage through Blue Cross Blue Shield here in Arizona.  My company pays for my coverage 100% which comes out to $600 a month.  Seriously.  PER MONTH.  But for me to just add my daughter I have to pay an additional $400 a month.  I mean holy crap guys.  It's a racket.  A total racket.  Not only that but Jess's Mom just had major heart surgery.  She works as a nurse for a large hospital in Phoenix.  Well, she's going to have to declare bankruptcy from the surgery.  Seriously.  She HAD health insurance through her work!  But because of how fucked and corrupted that system is they're playing the "Oh well we cover this but we don't cover that.  We only cover *THIS* anesthesiologist not the one who worked your surgery".  Like she had ANY CONTROL OF THAT!!!

I'm not sure universal health care would be the answer but what we have ain't working folks.  If any of you here think our system is working for America you're either incredibly wealthy, Mommy and Daddy got you covered or you're damn fortunate that you or a loved one hasn't had massive health problems.  

What's the number one reason for bankruptcy in America folks?  Out of control medical costs.  Why are they out of control?  Well it depends on what news channel you watch.

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

There are a lot of very complicated wheels turning with healthcare. My wife and I discussed the pharmacy she works for recently. She said they (CVS) have a lot of CVS brand generics avaialble for quite a few over the counter drugs but that they can't carry some of them because they are still under some kind of regulation. I'm ignorant to the interworkings of all this, but I gathered that drug companies are allowed to be the only producer of drugs that they do the research to produce for 3 years or something like that. The idea is the give them time to make money off the drug, reimbursing them for the research and development costs, which are really high in most cases.

This is one issue, as I see it. How do you reimburse a drug company for the research without limiting availability of a drug, driving costs so high? High drug costs hurt insurance companies, which in turn look like theives to the majority of us for charging so much for insurance in the first place.

Now, I'm not saying any of those industries are without fault. Personally, I hate slimy insurance companies. I've seen it all too often in my life where something is declared a pre-existing condition or some certain doctor wasn't under their plan. So they end up not covering things anyway.

My point is just that I feel like there's something more going on here than many people have the knowledge to put a finger on. I'm certainly ignorant in this discussion... but I know what I've experienced. I know it's wrong for people to be charged for things that they need to survive when they can't afford it. I know it's wrong for people to be denied preventative care because they can't afford it. I know it's wrong for people to die so that others can make money, too.

Sure, there's a certain point where enough is enough. What do you do when there's just not enough to go around? You take care of you and yours, I guess? But the issue here is that there are those who have more than they need causing those who have so little to lose what they've worked so hard for.

I don't think that using one doctor over another should ever factor into an insurance company paying up or not. I don't think where I receive care should matter. I don't feel that someone should ever die because they can't afford preventative care.

My grandfather died when I was 7 years old. I barely remember him now days. He died because of a blood clot forming in his leg while essentially waiting to die from lung cancer they hadn't spotted on some x-rays taken several years earlier. He didn't have insurance, so he didn't get yearly check-ups. Had he been able to afford the insurance or the actual care needed to have yearly check-ups, they'd have at least seen it in the second year. Who knows, maybe he'd still be around these days?

I know that's maybe a little too much information and a bit too personal, but it's why I hate healthcare in the situation it is in now.

High healthcare costs don't just hurt individuals eithers. There are entire hospitals locally that people consider "second-rate" because they can't afford to hire the best doctors, just the doctors who'll work for their pay. Regulations alone should prevent this even being an issue, but let's face it... a doctor who has performed 1000 open-heart surgeries is clearly the better choice than one who's on his first. And a new doctor will take a job making less money a lot faster than a guy with experience. It's the same in any industry.

Anyway... I'm done ranting... I don't really have any answers, either. I just know I wish our leaders did!

[Da6onet]

From Fox News:
"President Obama, in a speech to supporters, suggested business owners owe their success to government investment in infrastructure and other projects -- saying "if you've got a business, you didn't build that." Obama's comment Friday during a campaign stop in Roanoke, Va., came just days after he urged Congress to extend tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration only to families earning less than $250,000 annually -- part of his argument that top earners have an obligation to pay more to trim the deficit. "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me because they want to give something back," the president said. "If you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen," he said. "The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, has pledged a vote on the Obama plan before Congress' August recess, but whether he has the votes remains unclear. A handful of Democrats - include several facing a tough re-election bid - don't want to vote on a proposal that would result in a tax increase for some Americans. Senate Democrats and Republicans wrangled Wednesday over the tax cut extensions, which have emerged as a major campaign issue as GOP candidate Mitt Romney attempts to upend Obama's re-election bid. Leaders of the GOP-controlled House want to extended the cuts for all American and will almost assuredly reject any plan capping them at the $250,000 income level, or $200,000 for individuals. The cuts will expire in January.
\n
Wait for it...

[Anamodiel]

Op-Ed from Jack Welch in yesterday's WSJ. I guess Dag's post segway's nicely into this...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303740704577524823306803692.html

Here's a new party trick. Want to be accused of being a member of a satanic cult? Like to be called the kind of person who would steal candy from a child, or harm a puppy and start a forest fire-all in the same day? Do you want to be described as evil, heartless and stupid?

Then just do this: Offhandedly mention in public that you agree with Mitt Romney-and that, yeah, you think corporations are people.

Oh, how that notion sets some people right off their rockers! Take, for instance, the scene last month when senatorial candidate Elizabeth Warren introduced President Obama at a big fundraiser in Boston:

"Mitt Romney tells us, in his own words, he believes corporations are people. No, Mitt, corporations are NOT people," she pronounced. "People have hearts. They have kids. They get jobs. They get sick. They love and they cry and they dance. They live and they die. Learn the difference." The audience went wild.

What nonsense.

Of course corporations are people. What else would they be? Buildings don't hire people. Buildings don't design cars that run on electricity or discover DNA-based drug therapies that target cancer cells in ways our parents could never imagine.

Buildings don't show up at a customer's factory and say, "We won't leave until we solve your inventory problem." Buildings don't encourage their employees to mentor inner-city kids in math and science. Buildings don't fund homeless shelters in Boston or health clinics in Rwanda. People do.

Corporations are people working together toward a shared goal, just as hospitals, schools, farms, restaurants, ballparks and museums are. Yes, the people who invest in, manage and work for corporations are there to make a profit. And yes, corporations may employ some bureaucrats, jerks, cheapskates and even nefarious criminals.

But most individuals working in corporations are regular people, people just like you and your friends and neighbors. People who want to make a living and want to make a difference.

And while they're doing that, people in corporations do indeed love and cry and dance. If you don't know that, you've never been part of a team that has pulled together over coffee and late nights and shouting and laughing and created something amazing to hit a deadline. You've never been in the room when a longtime client says it's not working anymore and she's taking her business to your biggest competitor. You've never sat in the lunch room when someone runs in and says the new medical device that no one thought had a chance, the little heart valve or something like it that every engineer in the place has been working on for two years, has just passed its first human clinical trials with flying colors.

In such moments-moments that happen every single day-you can see and hear and feel that corporations are people. That's all they are.

This fact is so obvious that there can only be one conclusion drawn when we hear the pronouncement, "Corporations aren't people"-that it's doublespeak. That is, when people say that corporations aren't people, what they really want to say is, "Business is evil."

They want to say what they feel, which is that capitalism doesn't work, that it's unfair, and that America needs another system-one that, to quote the president himself, "spreads the wealth around."

Obviously, we're not in that camp. We know capitalism isn't perfect. But free markets are the best system there is to provide opportunity to those with an idea, or simply the motivation to work their butts off to make their lives better. We also know capitalism can spawn bad behavior; greed is part of the human condition and always will be. That's why regulations and controls exist, as they should.

But this movement afoot that hates on business is craziness. It will destroy America as we know it because very few jobs get created in an environment that's outright hostile to business. And without jobs, the whole thing falls down. It becomes a welfare state. We become a welfare state.

If that's what you want, we can't change your mind. But in your efforts, stop hiding behind words. Corporations are people. If you want to put an end to corporations, at least say what you mean.

[Mharz]

From Fox News:
"President Obama, in a speech to supporters, suggested business owners owe their success to government investment in infrastructure and other projects -- saying "if you've got a business, you didn't build that."

This single quote will assure him of losing the election.  

I'm confident that Kermit the Frog could run now and beat him.

[Lithium]

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

From Fox News:
"President Obama, in a speech to supporters, suggested business owners owe their success to government investment in infrastructure and other projects -- saying "if you've got a business, you didn't build that."

This single quote will assure him of losing the election.  

I'm confident that Kermit the Frog could run now and beat him.

Yeah... but we don't get Kermit, we get Romney. A guy who changes his tune daily, won't disclose tax records, owns offshore financial accounts and put together a healthcare plan similar to the one people insist on calling Obamacare.

[Broin]

Please do not make me come into this thread....

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

LOL.  

Personally, I'm happy to hear what you have to say. I am tired of seeing elections where its not a choice for the better man, but rather a decision on which is less evil than the other. I see the whole Damn Congress as an issue right now. Indecision after indecision. And I've yet to see a man step up who can get them to listen. But I'm young... the best president I recall getting anything done was Clinton and that's the same time the housing market was essentially doomed to one day fail.... so....

[Phienyx]

All I have to say at this point is that this country is in deep shit.  We are so far down the tubes there is no coming back.  People argue and bicker like brothers and sisters over differences of opinion (not to say that they are not on important matters...) and fail to see the overall picture of what is happening to this country. I don't really give a shit what label you stand under, if you uphold the spirit and letter of the Constitution, then you are my fellow American and I will fight to the death beside you in defense of that.   All others who seek to circumvent and outright ignore or blatantly violate those rights for any reason have no business in any position of power in this country.

Those of us who have at one point or another took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution (and in many cases it specifically mentions defending against enemies foreign and DOMESTIC) must realize that an oath is not something to take lightly and it has no expiration date.

While there are many, many factors that must be considered when discussing politicians, you should consider that if any person's agenda includes systematically dismantling the Constitution or ignoring it, you should be the first to question their loyalty to this nation and our well being.    

Beware of those who offer a solution to any problem that requires you to sacrifice any of your rights and freedoms.  The Piper will always eventually demand payment.

[Mharz]

From Fox News:
"President Obama, in a speech to supporters, suggested business owners owe their success to government investment in infrastructure and other projects -- saying "if you've got a business, you didn't build that."

This single quote will assure him of losing the election.  

I'm confident that Kermit the Frog could run now and beat him.

Yeah... but we don't get Kermit, we get Romney. A guy who changes his tune daily, won't disclose tax records, owns offshore financial accounts and put together a healthcare plan similar to the one people insist on calling Obamacare.

I tend to change my opinion when I learn more about problems, I won't disclose my tax records to anyone, ever.  I also might own assets which are not located inconus.

I have yet to design a heathcare plan but if I do I'm calling it ReaganCare.

Point is, Mitt isn't perfect but he is certainly the lesser of the two evils offered.

[Milhouse]

Context:  "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

So yes, if you cherry pick the one badly worded line in there, it's pretty awful. But if you ignore a person's entire point and just pick out the parts you want to focus on, your argument is lazy and childish.  It was shameful when people did it to GWB, and it's shameful now.

Grow the fuck up and have an adult conversation.  (That's for the our entire country, not just this thread.)

[Mharz]

Context:  "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

So yes, if you cherry pick the one badly worded line in there, it's pretty awful. But if you ignore a person's entire point and just pick out the parts you want to focus on, your argument is lazy and childish.  It was shameful when people did it to GWB, and it's shameful now.

Grow the fuck up and have an adult conversation.  (That's for the our entire country, not just this thread.)

While your read on the situation is roughly correct, that's not how it was spun and that's not how it was spread.

Also, I'll take issue with the fact that some business owners did do it all themselves.  Personally I'm not one of those people, my work is built on many of the things you mentioned but I'm not really the "average american worker" in my opinion.

The right will spin that phrase and that single speech into the ground and Obama will lose because of that.  While I don't mind (his politics don't match mine as well as Mitt's does) it is just a simple fact that the american media and the political system are like hungry sharks swimming around the water and that single comment is like chumming the water before throwing Obama in.  He's going to be eaten alive.

Sorry left wingers.  Your guy made a huge gaff and you'll pay for it for the next 4 years.

[likwidtek]

Dude Obama is no better but seriously you guys are going to carry the water for Mitt?  Seriously?  

[likwidtek]

Lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies

Barack Obama:  http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/
Mitt Romney:  http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/

They're both full of shit.  They're both puppets for people with fuck tons of money, they're totally bought and paid for and neither of them have the integrity this country needs.  

This is a Dog and Pony show and political theater at it's best.  You guys are distracted.  Wake up.