FA Raiding System

[eeth]

"raid lockouts" have been confirmed via screenshot releases (in the codex info release).

http://jedicron.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Lore-Codex.jpg (just on the right side of the "codex" tab)

so i think (unfortunately) it's not going to be easy-breezy fluid style raid whenever we want like MxO. i have the feeling it's going to be more of a pain-in-ass WoW style. meaning at some point we're gonna have to get our hands dirty with planning and scheduling.

[Ademaro]

Pain in the ass? I personally feel like WoW revolutionized raiding... but that's just my personal opinion. Having raid lockouts will encourage people to progress...

[eeth]

i'd agree that they changed the way MMOs are played. i have no problem with the WoW style other than i've suffered through years of "oh damn, so and so didn't show so now we can't raid." (the life and times of a small mostly friend-based guild.)

the pain-in-the-ass comment was just referencing the fact that there's logistics involved. aka we HAVE to plan raid times and whatnot. can't just quickly put a group together and go run a big instance.

[Ademaro]

Luckily with the size of the guild I don't think "no-shows" will be an issue but it'll have to be monitored and if people aren't showing up on time there needs to be rules set up for penalties...

I've ran more casual raid groups where if you were late without notification there would be a warning. After a repeated offense you would be sat and not allowed to raid for 'X' amount of time.

[Saint]

With all due respect Ademaro, there needs to be a better system than "punishment" to motivate our fellow angels. After all The Furious Angels are about having fun, thats why we play right? You don't want to turn this game into another job, we all have enough of those to go around.

An example would be, instead of sitting people out and punishing them. Reward those that put in more time with more guild advancement/rank/to be determined.

[Ademaro]

No worries man. I am just personally passing along what has actually worked for me...

EPGP/DKP etc reward those for being on time with loot, showing up to raids etc so that's not an issue ... But if we are talking 10 man raiding hypothetically ... 1 Person not showing up is a huge kick in the nuts to the rest of the group and sometimes that person is irreplaceable. Bringing someone that normally doesn't raid with the group means teaching the person the strategies, the fights and hoping that they can fulfill the role up to par of the person that didn't show (plus the lack of gear that, that said person may have)... I know tanks that do almost all of the work for the dps (as far as interrupts etc) so the dps can focus solely on dps'ing. If that tank doesn't show up unannounced your talking about possibly putting someone else in a position that is not used to doing that job hence a snowball effect.

Penalizing people for not showing up is typical for most people that have raided in games such as WoW or other popular raiding MMO's and "letting it slide" can only go so far. If someone is repeatedly week after week not showing up, not being on time, its frustrating for the other members of the group as well as the raid lead... Assuming that the raid system is much like raiding is implemented in WoW, calling off raids can be very depressing for a lot of people especially when it comes to progression.

Needless to say I don't think people not showing up will be a issue for FA. I am confident that those that don't have much experience will be quick to pick it up. Everyone here seems extremely dedicated, although I am just bringing up a point that may be considered for those that do run the raid groups and those that may be in-experienced.

To clarify in all honesty Seint, I don't want any of what I did say to offend you.

I have lead many raids where no shows were the demise of guilds... literally. FA as a whole is more RP/PvP based guild as it stands (from what I know) BUT if we are looking to raid and looking to dig into the PvE aspect of this game we do need to find those who can dedicate themselves to be there on time and commit to it week in and week out.

[Manic Velocity]

..if people aren't showing up on time there needs to be rules set up for penalties...

After a repeated offense you would be sat and not allowed to raid for 'X' amount of time.

Not going to happen.  We're here to have fun, and real-life priorities come first.  We shouldn't punish someone because they missed a raid because they had to take their kid to the doctor.

[Tbone]

I think Ademaro is talking about the choice to be a hardcore raider. If you don't have the time or commitment for that, you don't have to choose to do it. Because there are potentially 10 other people depending on you, you have to think of it kind of as a job shift. If you can't make the shift, find someone to cover your shift and let the group know. If you can't find someone to cover, at the very least let the group know so they are not there waiting on you. If you already know that you can't commit to the same time every week, then just don't sign up for it. We could easily have a more casual raiding schedule as well where you can just sign up for the weeks/times that you know you can be there.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a member to confirm that they will be late or can't make it if they signed up for the commitment. We have a text messaging system, emails, PMs, TS, Steam, AIM, etc. that should make that kind of communication fairly painless, even if something comes up last minute. If it's a choice between someone who always makes their commitments or let's people know when they can't and someone who just flakes out half the time, I don't think it's unreasonable to give priority to the more responsible person.

[Ademaro]

Tbone in all honesty hit it on the dot.

being accountable for something signed up for ahead of time ...
Devoting hypothetically Tuesdays-Thursdays 6-10pm EST time for raiding is kind of your standard or whatever your raid group decides upon and whatever is best suitable for the guild.

But I would personally like to throw out there anyone that would be interested in like a 4-5 (possibly more nights depending on the popularity) night a week raid group that I am interested in it and would be willing to help set it up if necessary or do whatever kind of pre-work prior to game release. I personally am more into PvE end game content typically over PvP, although PvP is definitely something I do love to do.

[Ademaro]

I can't wait for raiding in this game

edited ** sorry guys hahhaa

[Strod]

I keep seeing this word Punishment a lot.

I can see why Punishment in response to something less desired can be attractive for some people. In most cases it teaches right from wrong, helps individuals learn a certain way or a proper way to do things.

However, it also manifests resentment, discomfort, hatred and a plethora of other awful feelings and emotions. This is something I feel everyone can agree with me on when I say, that's not the Furious Angel attitude or atmosphere we present to others and especially ourself.

For the most part, your spot on for the structure on times, dates, and the general how to do's of setting up a raid sequence.

There is a lot that goes into something like this and for us it will be a bit more on the large scale side. Specifics must be known to construct this in a proper fashion. Perhaps a facts post or sub topic should be made to confirm or deny certain aspects of TOR raiding. That way when the knowledge of the game is known by everyone, we can then start tailoring it to how we want to approach the end game content.

In the end I would really like to start avoiding the Punishment word and potential mentality at all costs. I personally have been a Realm first guild in World of Warcraft before and Punishment has always been a big thing for such a guild. It was great having certain things before the other 95% of the game's player base and I really enjoyed the content at a rapid glass chewing rate. However, the flip side is 50% of the guild didn't like each other, 30% of the guild never spoke to the other 70%, 15% of the guild were complete jerk offs you would honestly consider punching in real life and the remaining 5% which was the Guild Leadership were genuine monsters.

So without blabbing any further, let's just try to avoid aspiring to be something or someone else and just be the Furious Angels and do it our own way.

[Ademaro]

Punishment may be looked at by some as punishment but to me its a form of positive encouragement. I am not saying in any way shape or form if you are 5 minutes late book across the face. Repeated offenses etc should be dealt with in other ways, being "punished".

The raid group I ran (keep in mind more of a hardcore raiding mentality) raided 5 nights a week until all content was cleared and we worked on a 3 strike rule. You break ANY rule whatsoever from being late to being disrespectful to a member... cursing etc and you were warned.
2nd strike Probation meaning you screw up again and you are sat out and or your membership is put under review and decided whether or not the offender was honestly worth keeping around.

Having fun is what its all about but be real, do you think its fair like I said before to let someone treat everyone like crap in your raid group and let them get away with that? No one would have respect for ANYONE.

I understand your drive to have a great environment but lets be real... Either way we are in a 70 person guild at this point pre release, there will be people those few that just don't get along. Some may be jealous of others, pinned up aggression towards others. I am sure some people hate me already who don't even know me just from speaking my mind and being real about situations that I feel are worth discussing.

I honestly mean no offense to anyone when I discuss raiding, but this will personally be a big aspect of the game and I obviously care about progression and the guild doing well.

[Saint]

... cursing etc and you were warned.

Ut ooo... half of our masters are screwed then...

[Strod]

I understand your drive to have a great environment but lets be real... Either way we are in a 70 person guild at this point pre release, there will be people those few that just don't get along. Some may be jealous of others, pinned up aggression towards others. I am sure some people hate me already who don't even know me just from speaking my mind and being real about situations that I feel are worth discussing.


You confuse the Furious Angels with people from World of Warcraft who are pathetic excuses for human beings. The above Bold, is not FA in any sense of the statement. The Furious Angels are like minded people who get along and play together to have fun first and fore most. That being said, if the above in bold is what's assumed is going to be how it is here, you really need to have a so called "reality check".

You really are missing the point, it's the same reason we will not strike someone down for making a mistake over helping them learn how to not make the mistake while staying a friendly.

As I said, things will have to be put into perspective and designed around how the Furious Angels will do it, not a barbaric method that works for a different kind of people in a different game.

I'm sure rules will be put into place, but a negative attitude coupled with steps taken to correct those mistakes will not be done here, I'll stake my life on it. This is in no way an attack on you, I even applauded your general outline on somethings. I feel as if you are taking what I said too personal, it was just a statement made towards the subject, not it's poster.

[Tbone]

This is an interesting debate, but please keep it on topic and make sure it doesn't reduce itself to flaming.