randomness

[Manic Velocity]

Now for some reason you dim wits think Obama is a god send... Hell he thinks he's a god send.

why are you hating on US?! you don't know how I voted.. or do you (*looks around*)

I think its ironic/sad/funny as hell that I get ALL of my political news from The Daily Show and the Colbert Report.... and it is probably the least biased of the news on..

It is sad that they are your only source. It's funny as hell that you think they are less biased than any other source.

They may have less red tape to worry about because they are social-commentators, not journalists.  They can get away with a bit more because their goal is to get laughs. But never assume that any form of media doesn't have an agenda.

[Tbone]

http://www.timepolls.com/hppolls/archive/poll_results_417.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLS4Jv6Tpw

The Daily Show and The Colbert Report make you think and question the people who tell you what the "news" is. Obviously the shows have their own opinions and have commentary on the events. The big difference is that they don't have anyone behind the curtain forcing them to do things a certain way. Jon Stewart runs the whole shebang and just calls it like he sees it. He doesn't hide his opinion, but he also doesn't try to claim that his opinion is fact.

In most cases they take a news story, show you what both sides are saying, and point out the flawed logic on both sides. For instance, most recently, health care. One side: people screaming at town hall meetings about random "distrust" and "fear" without discussing the actual issues with the flawed logic that this is somehow going to change people's opinions on the matter. And then the other side: democrats saying the bill doesn't have any of the things that are causing fear but then saying that the bill hasn't really been finalized and that there's no way to clearly define what it is, with the flawed logic that that isn't going to make some people uneasy.

Then they take a look at what the news sources are saying about the issues and point out the hypocrisy in that. For instance, Glen Beck ranting about how our health care is the best health care in the world and how dare anyone try to take that away, but then showing a clip of just nine months ago where he was ranting about how our current health care system completely leaves out the "normal guy" and then did a whole expose about how bad America's health care system is. Then there's just the question of what changed in the last 9 months?

Seriously, though, Stewart and Colbert are seen by a majority as the voice of reason - they say the things that any normal person who is really closely following things would say or ask. Yeah, obviously their liberal, but they also take jabs at both sides of the fence. Most importantly, they do a good job of keeping the other "legit" news sources honest. They represent the younger generation, a generation that is generally seen as more accepting and open-minded (or naive and foolish, depending on your spin =P).

I read the AP News on my iPhone and then watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report to see what the commentary is from various news sources as well as Stewart and Colbert themselves. I know where I'm from, everyone says FOX news is the only reliable news source and they refuse to watch anything else. That just seems ignorant and close-minded to me. Saying you trust FOX the most is fine, but to put your fingers in your ears and say "lalalala I can't hear you b/c you're wrong" to everything else... But I suppose we all do it, to an extent. I'll watch fox every now and again, but when I do, I usually wish my fingers were in my ears just to avoid the headache!

/endpoliticsspeak

[Da6onet]

Best news source in America is... the BBC.

[Subb]

Best news source in America is... the BBC.

Darn tootin'...

I love how the anti-healthcare system reformers have the argument that more of the elderly and sick will die in a system like we have, even though in the NHS the elderly and ill (duh!) have priority over those who are A) young enough to last longer and B) those who are having non-vital surgery e.g. breast implants or facial reconstruction.

I really don't get why you guys don't like the idea of a reform - if you want to have treatment like the current system, can't you just take out insurance and get it privately?

Plus, the poor will finally get fair treatment.

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say aboot it

[Tbone]

Basically Subb, change = scaaaaarrrry! Also, many people take a free market, capitalist system to mean that the poor should NOT get fair treatment. The idea is that it is their own fault that they are poor and lazy, and therefore don't deserve to live if they haven't made enough of their lives to afford our current health care. The other big issue is that big insurance companies are more important than sick people - in other words, it's more important to let private companies have complete control over health care and allow them to drop people who get "too" sick or have pre-existing conditions if it will help save them a dime but save them from having to compete with a government health care, than to have a government health care that provides an option for those who really need it but causes competition for the insurance company and maybe even persuades them to change their policies to actually COVER people who get sick.

Those are the issues but the stuff you'll hear about are the "scare tactics" - Obama is going to have his own "death panel" to decide if you should die (stems from an end-of-life counseling option...lol) or that there's going to be a Washington DC bureaucrat standing in between you and your doctor (as opposed to an insurance company that's only game is to make a profit on you not getting sick).

My dad's an insurance salesman and my brother just got his license in life and health insurance. I still think the reform is important and that it's not gonna run my family out of business.

[Broin]

Yeah us crazy free market system people are just insane.  Look the simple short of it is this.  You can not have a goverment run system and a private system at the same time, and call it free market.  Free market meaning that the consumer (consumer=private citizen) chosing what coverage they want.  

The goverment is a huge beast that doesn't give two shits about how much they spend or charge for things.  They don't have to, why because all they need to do is either 1) Print more money or 2) take more money.  Private companies that would need to make profit (oh my god there is that evil work profit) could not compete against the goverment plan.  

In essence what would happen is over a short period of time all the companies that had their own private insurance would eventually be forced to drop that insurance and opt for the public option.  It is written into the damb bill that way.  If you don't have the type of coverage that the goverment "deems appropriate" for your employees then the private company gets slammed with additional taxes.  

Will there be death panels?  Yes.  It's that simple there will be some bureaucrat somewhere making a decision as to whether a procedure for someone meets a specific criteria to make it cost effective.  Dude it is that plain and simple.  It is that way in every public option plan out there.  It is that way in Brittain, it is that way in Canada, and it is that way currently here in the US with the public Medicaid and Medicare systems.  If you need a procedure and someone else is paying for it other than you then someone is going to be looking at that procedure and determining whether it is necessary for you.  

The main part of the problem is there does need to be reform, but the reform that needs to take place is getting the freakin goverment out of the system.

Think about it like this.  T is a pretty young guy, pretty healthy, not much worry for certain types of things like let's say breast cancer.  Now before you go laughing I want you to stop and think about this.  If T wanted to buy a health insurance policy specifically for himself the goverment deems that, that policy has to cover mamograms.  Doesn't matter that T doesn't have tits, it still has to be in there.

So what if you are private company who highers mostly men construction workers and you want to get insurance for them.  You think you'd be able to buy a policy specifically designed for your employees right.  Bullshit... The goverment deems mandatory types of coverage has to be held in that policy whether it would be beneficial to your employees or not.

Tell you what T go ask your dad about it, and all the mandatory crap that the goverment makes you put into policies and ask him if it'd be a better fix to allow people to develop their own policies with their own private insurance companies, and have a specific type of public option for everyone to cover only the catastrophic rare circumstances.

Oh, and back to this..

Also, many people take a free market, capitalist system to mean that the poor should NOT get fair treatment. The idea is that it is their own fault that they are poor and lazy, and therefore don't deserve to live if they haven't made enough of their lives to afford our current health care

You're damn right... Life is not fair didn't anybody tell you that when you were growing up.  For the most part most of the people who are currently on the goverment rolls are poor lazy worthless shits.  Either that or illegal.  

Despite that they ALL HAVE INSURANCE COVERAGE.  It's fucking called MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.  In addition the goverment has deemed that no one in need of care can be turned away from the hospital.  There isn't one person out there "legally" in this country who is a US citizen that can't get coverage (.) <-- PERIOD.  Plus there are hundreds of programs developed by private companies and coallitions to get people their treatments, and prescriptions, etc.

Simple thing is people don't want the goverment fucking with them anymore.  I mean dude seriously the goverment options Medicaid, Medicare are just rampant with fraud waste and abuse.  Anything the goverment touches turns to shit.  The only thing we have ever been able to do right is break things and kill people, and the dumb shits in there now want to limit that.

Seriously don't get me started any more that what I am because I'll slam down alot more facts and figures and bury you in it.

They don't give a crap about health care.  They don't give a crap about you.  They just want the control you.... (insert your explitives)

Words of wisdom live by them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Erushlimbaugh%2Ecom%2Fhome%2Ftoday%2Eguest%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded#t=25

[Subb]

I knew that the medical system is all about money; it is over here. The government here has the right to refuse you your cancer drugs unless you pay for 'em out of your own pocket.

Broin, I take it you're against the reformation?

I read something in the paper today (The Independant) compairing statistics on the US medical system and the UKs - The UKs was marginly better, but I'm pretty sure that we're just nitpicking since all the news footage on the TV at the mo is basicly Americans slamming our system saying that it's shite etc. so they want to make us look better.

I was just thinking that either way - they're gonna get money...

[Da6onet]

In an ideal world, health insurance under Obama would work similar to the US Post Office vs UPS/FedEx/DHL/etc.

That is, you have a government entity that takes care of the money losing side of things, i.e. FedEx does not want to mail your postcards and personal letters for $0.45, and for important shipments such as your Ebay collectible transformers, you have the option of using a private carrier, but can still use the post office, it is your "choice."

In this analogy, government run health plans would basically be one big money loser (shocking concept I know), but it would catch everyone else that isn't under another private plan or those who choose a government plan. So why would someone choose BlueCross BlueShield over a government plan? I'll use Broin's example, Tbone doesn't need gyno visits/treatments, so a unique private plan that meets his needs would be better suited to him.

The ultimate problem with insurance is that it is a gamble on the health of people, except that when someone gets sick, they're usually the person that pays for the gamble, not the insurance company or even a well intentioned government. Example, someone with rheumatoid arthritis usually has to take rather expensive drugs like Humira, a biologic, costs roughly $25,000 per year out of pocket (that's just the Humira, that doesn't include the doctor visits, xrays, etc). A private health insurance company would not accept that person under a new policy because it's a pre-existing condition. A government run plan should really be the one to pick up the tab in that case, because otherwise it financially cripples a working class family or that person becomes crippled faster because they can't get their medication, in which case they file for disability and end up leeching off the government anyway.

We have medicaid for people who cannot afford a private plan currently, but as with nearly all government vs private plans, for whatever reason, there is a gap, not an overlap, between the two. Meaning, if you make 50k+ per year, you should be able to afford health insurance. If you make less than 20k per year, you should be able to qualify for medicaid (provided you're smart enough to navigate through the process). For those people making between 20-50k per year, they're essentially fucked if their employer doesn't offer them an plan they can afford.

What most people don't realize is that around 45% of the country actually falls into the 20-50k range. Those at the upper end are spending money they really can't sustain to keep coverage and the ones at the low end typically realize it's better for their health if they stop working and collect unemployment/welfare and medicaid. The ones that haven't gone either route are the ones congress is trying to help really, the ones who choose groceries over penicillin but still work and pay taxes.

As for illegal immigrants, fuck em, if they die, their will be two more to replace them tomorrow.

[Fuse]

...What Broin said.

Ask anyone in the healthcare system who works with patient if its a good idea-youll get the same answer. NO! I have a friend who has been an MD for 10 year. He grew up in Canada but moved here right after college and began his residency. He knows better than I what a clusterfuck gov run healthcare is. He ran away from it. Everyone at my wifes hospital is afraid. Its not about fearing change-the HC system needs change, but not this. Look at the DMV, medicare/medicade, social security, amtrak, the postal service, or simply our budget for an example of how great the gov can fuckup a system. Why would you put your trust in them with a record like thiers? Would you invest in someone like that?

Broin, I'm getiing my server setup later tonight and Ill have to steal your rant because its exactly what I'd write.

[Manic Velocity]

As for illegal immigrants, fuck em, if they die, their will be two more to replace them tomorrow.

That's rather harsh.  I mean, illegal immigrants are just as American as you or me.  They just don't have the legal documentation to prove it.  They've earned... no... they deserve the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

Now let's all hold hands and hug this tree.

[Fuse]

I really hope that's a joke. Illegals are here Illegally, why are they as American as me? That's actually offensive. If someone comes into my home and starts cleaning and cooking, that doesn't mean its now their home. Its mine. Stop cleaning, cooking and GTF out before I shoot you for trespassing. I don't owe them anything.

[Manic Velocity]

I really hope that's a joke.

I thought the tree hugging comment gave it away.

[Fuse]

Well I knew THAT part was a joke.

[Fuse]

Broin, I'm getiing my server setup later tonight and Ill have to steal your rant because its exactly what I'd write.

Woot! Finally have it back up!
http://www.lostlocalhost.com/

[Fuse]