Ouch...

[Setun]

Eurogamer reviewed Darkfall Online recently....and man, did they tear it a new asshole...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfall-online-review?page=1

As with most reviews though, there's always the issue of biasedness considering he likes to mention WoW a bunch, but yeah....this review will hopefully get Aventurine to get their shit together on sprucing up the game.

[Anamodiel]

Just the facts:

Darkfall scores a 2 out of a possible 10. Reviewers hardly played the game based on the server logs.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/da...-online-review

Eurogamer’s MMO Editor came to me over a month ago and asked for 2 accounts to review Darkfall which they promptly received. Today, more than a month later they came out with their long awaited review and we REALLY flunked it would seem. Darkfall got 2/10.

2/10 according to the Eurogamer scoring policy means: Avoid at all costs etc. You can find the scoring policy here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy.php

Scroll down to 2 and see how much this guy hated Darkfall and how strongly Eurogamer prompts everyone to avoid it at all costs.

The MMO editor warned me personally about the bad review on the way, and I asked him to give us some consideration and get another reviewer on the case since 2/10 is the lowest review they’ve ever given, and Darkfall’s reviews so far have been mostly good ones. It sounded very unfair to me and I appealed its publication. Not even the harshest critics of the game or the trolls on various forums would give it that low a score. This is a niche game we explained and perhaps the reviewer’s play-style was completely different and he was maybe the wrong kind of person to review the game. Darkfall isn’t for everyone after all, and having someone who can’t handle this kind of game write the review would be unfair both to the game and to Eurogamer readers. You can’t use the same tool for every job. Eurogamer’s MMO editor refused and basically said that he carefully selected a reviewer that would be fair to the game and that he would stand by the review. Then he posted the review.

When we read the hostile review by Ed Zitron, one thing became apparent: he had not played the game at all. Eurogamer readers and Darkfall players are posting bullet lists of factual errors in the story. The reviewer hadn't even figured out the very basics of the game before he wrote about it. We checked the logs for the 2 accounts we gave Eurogamer and we found that one of them had around 3 minutes playtime, and the other had less than 2 hours spread out in 13 sessions. Most of these 2 hours were spent in the character creator since during almost every one of the logins the reviewer spent the time creating a new character. The rest of the time was apparently spent taking the low-res screenshots that accompanied the article. At no point did this reviewer spend more than a few minutes online at a time.

Darkfall is the largest MMORPG game of its kind and this guy spent a few minutes playing(?) before he tore it apart. How can someone do that responsibly? Ed Zitron didn’t even give Darkfall a chance.

The entire review is opinionated and hostile; it attacks the game, the creators and the company at every chance. The creators and developers of Darkfall, as well as the Darkfall community through its reaction, consider this review suspect and question the motives behind its publication. We can take a bad review, but not like this. Even the worst reviews that we’ve received commend our efforts and speak of the potential of Darkfall. The majority of our players love the game. This review might keep new players from ever trying a game they would enjoy.

We sent the play-time information to Eurogamer and asked them to take down the article as it is damaging our game’s reputation but also Eurogamer’s reputation. We asked to get an unbiased reviewer on the case who will actually play the game before writing about it. They said that taking it down now would be more damaging to their reputation than if they left it up. After our reaction to publicize the play history of their reviewers to protect our game, they asked us to wait while they try to confirm what we already knew from our logs. We’re afraid that waiting any longer is unacceptable to us, because this review was designed to drive people away from our game and allowing it to remain without any kind of reaction is out of the question. Out of professional courtesy we’ve waited 5 hours longer than we said we would before posting this.

An update: Eurogamer got back to us via their editor and said that their reviewer is a contributing writer rather than a staff writer, that he claims to have spent at least 9 hours playing the game and they will stand by their publication. We wrote back that this is a lie and that our server logs(which they already have) show the playtime down to the second and they are at their disposal. They offered to re-review the game and see if the second reviewer has a different opinion than the first one. We wrote back that it might be hard to find someone to confirm the first review, especially if they actually play the game.

[Tbone]

Who is that quote from? Tasos? He seems pissed...lol

[KnightOfZero]

i think it was tasos, and yea he was hella pissed! lol

[likwidtek]

If what Tasos says is true that's really fucked up that they spent a whole 2 hours (most of it in the character creation)

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

Well, after looking over this and the eurogamer site... I found a recent reply to Tasos' post on the darkfall forums.. Here it is below:

Editor's blog: Darkfall aftermath Blog entry by Tom Bramwell


Yesterday Eurogamer MMO published a review of Darkfall Online, scoring the game 2/10.

Several hours later, after a bit of email discussion, Aventurine responded on its forum, claiming the review was factually inaccurate and the reviewer had played the game for only two hours.

As I said to Tasos Flambouras from Aventurine yesterday, I take any feedback on our reviews - and especially this kind of response - extremely seriously. However, I disagree with Flambouras' depiction of events.

The reviewer in question, Ed Zitron, disputes the server logs that Aventurine presents as fact. According to the logs they supplied, Ed played the game for just over three hours. Ed says the logs miss out two crucial days and understate others, which suggests they are incomplete, and he insists he played the game for at least nine hours.

I did tell Flambouras - as he writes on the forum - that Ed is a contributor rather than a staff writer, but the implication is that I said this to distance Ed from Eurogamer. This is wrong. Ed Zitron has my full support.

As I told Flambouras, Ed's references and background are immaculate, as many PC Zone readers will attest. I also do not believe server logs are incontrovertible proof of the scenario Aventurine describes. Aventurine says Ed's response is a "lie", and demanded that I take down the review and issue a retraction, but I can't do that on the basis of the evidence presented.

Speaking as someone who hasn't played the game, questions of factual accuracy are more difficult for me to quantify (although the review thread has a crack, and you should read it if you're interested). It's also hard to judge from a distance whether two, nine or 50 hours would be appropriate to review Darkfall, as this clearly varies enormously from game to game.

That said, the passion with which Aventurine has attacked Ed's review is considerable, and the allegations obviously go a long way beyond arguing the toss. With this in mind, it seems only fair to take another look at Darkfall to supplement the review we've already published.

I've already contacted another one of our PC writers, Kieron Gillen, who has agreed to review Darkfall. Kieron is a vastly experienced, award-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of Rock, Paper, Shotgun. I'll publish his review as soon as it's ready, and we will see whether he agrees with Ed or not.

It's safe to say that we've learned some lessons from this episode, and they will be beneficial when it comes to future reviews. In the meantime, any and all discussion of the subject on the forums and comments threads is fine. Just as game developers have to deal with the response to their work, so too do we, and you've every right to criticise and debate it.

If you're curious about the new reviewer who will be looking over Darkfall, here's a taste of what we're sure to see from him...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/r_matrixonline_pc

[Da6onet]

Well I understand where the reviewer is coming from because I myself don't like sandbox games. I really feel the only way a reviewer would give DF a good review is if they played every day for a month with one of the more active guilds. Then the review would go something like this.

Darkfall has bugs, but they're a good dev team and fixing them constantly, and with MMO's these days, it's the talent of the dev team that make a game good.

Darkfall made me cry but it also made me laugh. The grind is painful, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give up my quest to get cooking up to 100!

All in all, a huge world to explore, but a dangerous one at that. This game is not for the feint of heart.

Overall 6-7/10 with potential to go higher as patches come out.

In context scores (how a reviewer's game play ability affects the score)
Noobs 2/10
Average 6/10
Expert gamers 9/10

[Tecknik]

So how mad does Aventurine get if the second reviewer shits on the game too?

[Phienyx]

My take on it is this:  A game should be enjoyable to play whether you are a noob or a hardcore gamer.  I am starting to think that calling it a niche game is an excuse for all its inadequacies.  Its like UFC and S&M.  No matter what you call it or how you present it, it all boils down to getting your ass kicked. The only difference is in one its by a really ugly smelly guy and in the other, its by a (sometimes) hot chick.  A crappy game is a crappy game regardless of what you call it, what face you put on it or who you say your audience is.  

...and as far as those of us who have followed it for multiple years.....we should know better.  This is not the game they promised us by a long shot.

Can Darkfall be saved from going the way of MxO?  Yes, but Adventurine needs to stop making excuses for what it isn't doing and stop whining about shitty reviews and get back on track with what they said they would deliver oh so many years ago.

[likwidtek]

My take on it is this:  A game should be enjoyable to play whether you are a noob or a hardcore gamer.  I am starting to think that calling it a niche game is an excuse for all its inadequacies.  Its like UFC and S&M.  No matter what you call it or how you present it, it all boils down to getting your ass kicked. The only difference is in one its by a really ugly smelly guy and in the other, its by a (sometimes) hot chick.  A crappy game is a crappy game regardless of what you call it, what face you put on it or who you say your audience is.  

...and as far as those of us who have followed it for multiple years.....we should know better.  This is not the game they promised us by a long shot.

Can Darkfall be saved from going the way of MxO?  Yes, but Adventurine needs to stop making excuses for what it isn't doing and stop whining about shitty reviews and get back on track with what they said they would deliver oh so many years ago.

OK but be fair.  They've said for years that this game won't be for everyone and that it caters to a specific niche of gamers.  I knew what I was signing up for.  I knew I would lose my pixels... a lot.  I also knew this was unlike I had ever played.  

Excusable and intended:
Countless ganks
Loosing all your shit
Wasting hours just to get ganked and lose it all
"Grind" (whiners call it a grind AV calls it "don't max out all skills in a month)
No end game... ITS ALL END GAME
Harvesting takes time
Looting takes time
Not putting everything on easy mode

Inexcusable and unintended:
Graphical glitches
Exploits
Hacks
Missing mobs and content
Imbalances

All the bad stuff is being chipped away at though.  They're doing a good job fixing it but that's implying that it was broken.  Which I don't think it's ever been broken to begin with...  just bugs

[Phienyx]

My take on it is this:  A game should be enjoyable to play whether you are a noob or a hardcore gamer.  I am starting to think that calling it a niche game is an excuse for all its inadequacies.  Its like UFC and S&M.  No matter what you call it or how you present it, it all boils down to getting your ass kicked. The only difference is in one its by a really ugly smelly guy and in the other, its by a (sometimes) hot chick.  A crappy game is a crappy game regardless of what you call it, what face you put on it or who you say your audience is.  

...and as far as those of us who have followed it for multiple years.....we should know better.  This is not the game they promised us by a long shot.

Can Darkfall be saved from going the way of MxO?  Yes, but Adventurine needs to stop making excuses for what it isn't doing and stop whining about shitty reviews and get back on track with what they said they would deliver oh so many years ago.

OK but be fair.  They've said for years that this game won't be for everyone and that it caters to a specific niche of gamers.  I knew what I was signing up for.  I knew I would lose my pixels... a lot.  I also knew this was unlike I had ever played.  

Excusable and intended:
Countless ganks
Loosing all your shit
Wasting hours just to get ganked and lose it all
"Grind" (whiners call it a grind AV calls it "don't max out all skills in a month)
No end game... ITS ALL END GAME
Harvesting takes time
Looting takes time
Not putting everything on easy mode

Inexcusable and unintended:
Graphical glitches
Exploits
Hacks
Missing mobs and content
Imbalances

All the bad stuff is being chipped away at though.  They're doing a good job fixing it but that's implying that it was broken.  Which I don't think it's ever been broken to begin with...  just bugs

I agree with the points made here, but I've been following this game's development since 2005.  I registered on the boards 2006.  growing pains are things that have to be dealt with for any game.  One always hopes, however, that the majority of these things are dealt with in testing.

None of my complaints have anything to do with the fact that its open PvP and full loot.  That is as any MMO should be IMO.  That's fine and dandy.  Its just that the kind of player that will engage in grief ganking as their main "style" of game play is the same player that will hack and exploit any and use every illegal and unfair every advantage they can to have the upper hand over other players....usually the honest players who simply wish to play the game as it was intended to be played.  Even if these hacks and exploits were not possible, the draw backs to playing as a murderer, thief, griefer need to be more in line with said actions, which they are not atm.  I don't want any further protections put in place for those who don't play as murderers or griefers.  There simply needs to be more of a penalty for those that do.  Right now its a situation of "if you can't beat all the griefers assholes in the game, then join them".  This is because there is more in place right now greifers hide behind a the weak and ill-conceived game mechanics.

But I've gotten off track of my actual point.  For those of you who have been around since 2005, you know this is not the game that was promised.  It is missing most of the features that drew us in.  As someone mentioned on the DF boards, some of these listed features have actually been removed from the site to cover up the fact that they did not deliver the game they said they would deliver.  You would only know this if you'd actually seen the original feature listing.  There was supposed to be much more depth and purpose to this game.  There was supposed to be something for every one.  Open PvP and full loot was supposed to be a big part of Darkfall, but not the only part of Darkfall.

I've played enough MMOs to know the typical issues they have.  I've been present for the opening day of several of them and while I've witnessed many degrees of "epic clusterfuck", its pretty bad when you can't even get the game into the hands of people who want to buy it, let alone release the game with half the content and features that it claimed it would have.

All in all, I don't hate DF or I would not be playing it.  I see that it has potential.  I see that it is not the game that originally caught my eye.  And I know that AV needs to stop worrying about shitty reviews.  (That is the most I've heard/seen Tasos elaborate on anything  other than their supposed actions agains hackers and exploiters).  The best thing they can do for damage control right now is simply to prove the reviews wrong by improving the game and do it PDQ.  No, it was never meant to be a game for everyone but that doesn't excuse poor planning and implementation and over-all subpar work.  There is no reason that "the game that is for niche players" still can't be a good solid game.

[Manic Velocity]

I agree with the reviewer completely when he says, "It's almost as if Darkfall doesn't want you to play."  That was my biggest gripe.  I wanted to like the game, but the game fought with me the entire time.  It really did feel like it didn't want me to play it.  That's about the only part of the review that I found myself nodding too.  The rest of it seemed very petty and insulting.

And while Tasos has every right to defend his game, the way he did it made him come off sounding like a spoiled brat.  The nit-picking about how much time the reviewer spent on the game is a moot point, because MMO's are never finished.  This is the point Tasos should have been making, but instead he just calls the reviewer a liar.  I wonder what Tasos' reaction would have been if a reviewer spent 30 minutes in the game and gave it 9 out of 10.  Then he stomps his feet and demands that they take the review down?  He should be the bigger man and defend the merits of his work rather than fight bitching with bitching.  Rather than name calling and making demands, I'd have far more respect for Tasos if he would have said "This is the game we intended to make.  If you don't like it, then please don't play it."

If Aventurine (Tasos) wants to keep touting Darkfall as a "niche" game, then they shouldn't be so shocked when a lot of people don't like it.

Both the reviewer and Tasos are a bit off base here, I think.  A 2/10 rating is insulting, but Tasos could do well to realize that it is impossible to please everyone.

[likwidtek]

I didn't start following it until late 08.  So maybe that's why I'm not irritated like most.  I actually started a thread on the boards a while ago asking what exactly people were so upset about that has changed about the game.

Some interesting points:  http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=180701

[likwidtek]

Some good reads about darkfall:  http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1

[Da6onet]

i can't stop laughing, every clan in the game is declaring war on eurogamer

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1433/wardec.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=37689556.jpg