Race & Clan Politics Discussion

[Runjun]

Changed topic due to direction of the thread. There is another thread, "How will you fight?", that addresses the original purpose of this thread.

-Tbone

[Zero]

Heh, I was actually about to post about this as well.  I want to be a Mahirim and have been researching what difficulties it would present in a clan that is dominantly human/mirdain/dwarf.  I've been reading this thread:  http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=103530  which the information is taken from this dev journal: http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/4883-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-26-Questions-Answered

Apparently NPC guards won't attack based on race??  However I think race equipment will have to be obtained from racial towns, making a central clan city difficult.  Some will have to travel further to get their equipment.  Also, as is mentioned in the dev journal, if a Mahirim and Mirdain are fighting/questing/traveling together and a human wishes to kill the Mahirim for extra alignment, the Mirdain would lose alignment trying to help the Mahirim by attacking the human.

What do ya'll think I should do?  I'm a team player, and would like to do what is best for the clan.

[Tbone]

Yeah that's the big debate right now. I really don't like limiting our members' preferences, but at the same time I do not want to make things hard on the guild as a whole. Opinions are welcome regarding this matter.

[Phienyx]

Well, it is beginning to become more clear what will and won't work.  Those wishing to choose an "evil" race won't really be able to function effectively with those of us aligned with the "good guys".  So, my suggestion is just to let applicants know that they have to be willing to choose a race that is aligned with the "good guys".  This is not our restriction.  This is a game restriction and I see no real problem with it.  Its part of what makes this game a little different than others.  No reason to agonize over something that isn't likely to change.  Lets just do what works for FA

[Runjun]

...Those wishing to choose an "evil" race won't really be able to function effectively with those of us aligned with the "good guys".  So, my suggestion is just to let applicants know that they have to be willing to choose a race that is aligned with the "good guys"...

Sounds good to me...  I would imagine a large majority of people pick the "evils" because they want to do evil.

But I have to agree with Tbone, we must do what's best for the group.

[Tbone]

Yeah I know what you are saying. I guess I just don't want to have to say "conform or you're out" but does appear to be in the game mechanics. I suppose a good example would be Zion mervs and machs in mxo only mxo did not give the option to group with your enemy orgs/races.

[Zero]

Yeah, I don't want to be evil though.  I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim.  One of them self hatin wolves!!!  But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy...  I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities.  And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever...  If your an evil evil person, does that make you good?  Or just super evil?  haha.

[Phienyx]

So killing your own race gives you negative faction or whatever they call it?  This could also pose. So how are say, humans or whatever race going to keep their own in check when need be?  Are we going to have to contact a player from another race and say "hey this guy is being a douch, please come and kill him.  Or is it ok for us to kill those who have negative faction with us?

[Runjun]

So killing your own race gives you negative faction or whatever they call it?  This could also pose. So how are say, humans or whatever race going to keep their own in check when need be?  Are we going to have to contact a player from another race and say "hey this guy is being a douch, please come and kill him.  Or is it ok for us to kill those who have negative faction with us?

Declare war.

[Runjun]

Yeah, I don't want to be evil though.  I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim.  One of them self hatin wolves!!!  But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy...  I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities.  And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever...  If your an evil evil person, does that make you good?  Or just super evil?  haha.

A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you?  He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.

[Subb]

Yeah, I don't want to be evil though.  I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim.  One of them self hatin wolves!!!  But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy...  I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities.  And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever...  If your an evil evil person, does that make you good?  Or just super evil?  haha.

A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you?  He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.

Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).

Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?

Well, that's just my opinion.

[Tbone]

Yeah, I don't want to be evil though.  I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim.  One of them self hatin wolves!!!  But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy...  I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities.  And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever...  If your an evil evil person, does that make you good?  Or just super evil?  haha.

A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you?  He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.

Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).

Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?

Well, that's just my opinion.

Right, but if you compare it to MxO... if People A are Zion and People B are Machine, we're still fighting for People A under the belief that People B are "evil" or "the bad guys".

That being said, I've been giving some thought to our approach with enemy races. I think the approach we took with MxO was a good one. If an enemy race forms a clan, we can assume that one of that clan's goals is to destroy our race's clans. So if an enemy is in a clan, they are open to attack. If an enemy race is unaligned with a clan, however, we can assume he might be minding his own business, and we do not turn hostile unless aggrivated by him.

Obviously different clans will have different goals, and we might find some "enemy race" clans who are neutral to us or interested in trade or the like while I am sure there will be many many who will simply become KOS.

[likwidtek]

This may or not belong in this thread but I'll post it here for lack of a better place.

What made FA amazing was playing hard to get, filtering out smacktards, tight knit group, organization.

What made us awesome in the "story" was that we chose to be the underdog, mysterious, good guys.  Which ever race fits the above is the winner.

This is the part that's sorta off topic:  As far as recruiting goes... I think we're really making a mistake if we don't create a challenge for the DF guild.  It's what got us so many amazing players.  The people who couldn't even make it past a semi challenging test were filtered out.  The immature, non dedicated players were filtered out as well.

Seriously, IMO the recipe for FA's success was being mysterious, being elite/ hard to join, and being the good/underdog.

[Zero]

Yeah, I don't want to be evil though.  I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim.  One of them self hatin wolves!!!  But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy...  I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities.  And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever...  If your an evil evil person, does that make you good?  Or just super evil?  haha.

A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you?  He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.

Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).

Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?

Well, that's just my opinion.

That's the feeling I've gotten from this group so far.  However, there's no need to make things difficult for everyone.  If going red has severe consequences, having other races will become a hindrance to others.  As a "good" Mahirim, I personally would try my best to avoid the fight.  Being able to run on all fours would help me to flee, but assassinations would be difficult to avoid.  Hopefully some smooth talking and fast running will get me out of these difficult situations.  If the worst happens, then I guess it's my burden to bear.

Based on Tbone and FA's philosophies, I imagine we won't be going around killing people of other races just to get good alignment or loot or anything like that.  We are not prejudice; we fight for justice.  Killing people of similar or allied races is a non-issue.  I believe that killing someone who has gone red gives good alignment regardless of race, correct?

So, it seems to me that the only issue is of protection.  If a Mahirim is attacked by a Human, he is outside the protection of the clan because it will cause loss of good alignment.  It is difficult at this time to determine how big of a deal this is...

[likwidtek]

My personal preference will be put aside for what tbone and everyone decides is best for FA.