Idea to Organize the Faction

[Anonymous]

To address your point likwidneo, look at SWG right now. It's growing sick and slowly dying. All MMOs, a bit after initial release, reach critical mass. At that point they will never get subscribers above that level and can only hope to keep them and stave off mass cancelations. Everquest was particularly good at establishing a hardcore comunity capable enough to fund server upkeep and slow but continual development. SWG on the other hand alientated players and honestly the entire place is only a ghost of what it once was.

I was in a free trial a while back, in a fairly decent sized guild on Bria called HERO, and things went pretty well. My friend's account (which he bought after his trial expired) was mysteriously re-activated. He showed me parts of bria and areas that before had been bustling with people are veritable ghost towns now. Not even the star wars name can save SWG from inevitably failing.

Secondly, we are not ruining the story. We are making our own. Essentially we are doing what the devs encourage players to do, make their own story and cut a swath in the matrix. However unlike what the devs want us to do, we will not sit futilly and whittle away against an unchangable pre-written "Destiny." We do this by organizing, planning and making sure that the only way the situations can occur a way other then we're hoping for, is to break continuity.

Now, another differnce between us and SWG is that we have a live events team, this team is required to interact with us in-character and do things in-character. This is because, quite frankly, as dictated by the hype and the official releases, everything we do, down to the tinyest detail within the matrix, after launch, is written in canon. Because of this, and because the fact that while logged in we are constantly writing our own little story and the live events team are forwarding the larger naratives, we have the ability to leverage pressure to change that story by forcing them into situations where they either must do something new or break continuity. It is considered breaking continuity (not to us but to matrix lore as a whole) because all actions taking place are instantly canonized in lore.

If we have records of them breaking continuity in a major way it would be a deathblow to this game with already somewhat shaky foundations. This combined with proper community support puts the developers in a very very shaky position. They can either do as we wish and provide true story interaction, or face a flop caused by mass account cancelations. Then they can watch their game wither away much as star wars galaxies has, to a point where there is not enough to support continued development and upkeep.

This is because breaking continuity angers not just casual fans but extremely upsets the hardcore loyalists. It is these loyalists that would keep the game running for years to come, therefore it is in their best interests to keep within continuity.

Now, is this going to be easy? most certainly not. It will take a lot of very specific discipline and organizational skills. However if anyone can do it, we can. We simply need to be in a position where we can organize times where all 40/50 of us are on teamspeak and jacked in while the live events team is on.

We can change the story ladies and gentlemen, we have the power to do so. All we need is to agree to work together to use it. I believe in us, in the angels and the power to do this. All we need is unity and organization.

[Anonymous]

while i never played SWG, common sense tells me that SWG didnt die because the devs were a bunch of dicks. it died because SoE is too busy toting around their flagship game, namely EQ or EQII and gives shit for funding and resources to the SWG teams.how do i know this? cuz the same thing is happening with planetside, a.k.a. the big empty, a game that is so FUCKING AWESOME and is the only MMOFPS out tehre only to be countered by SoE corporate execs monumental stupidity and lack of funding the game, namely the marketing department. fact of the matter is, if its an online game, comes from SoE, and doesnt have the words Ever or Quest in it, its getting shit treatment from the boardroom. consequently, the same company with the same employees with the same fucking policies run SWG and EQ. i doubt anybody got fired for fucking with ppl in SWG, in fact it probably didnt even get looked down upon by the higher ups. the reason why EQ thrives where SWG fails isnt the attitude of the staff, its plain and simple investments of time and money. devs and GMs take the exact same attitude on FFXI and guess what, Square Enixs quarterly earnings report states that profit from FFXI has doubled since the same quarter last year. ive heard the same nightmare stories comming out of WoW. fact of the matter is, staff in mmo's can do whatever they want and it wont stop 99.998% of ppl from playing the game. this has been proven time and again. and i think if we try purposely interfering with the dev's previously outlined storyline, theyre going to be none too happy about it.

id say our best bet is as you stated trying to create our own storylines, storylines that dont interfere with the devs storylines and dont get me wrong id be down for that.... but.... its not going to impact the game. no one is going to take up and notice. and i dont think these storylines will be recognized by the devs in any way, even tho that WOULD be really cool.

[Ketamininja]

Well, the devs say we can impact the storylines, and I think it may be in our mission statement to become more involved in the story line (we need to confirm real mission statements ). Ok, all points are valid, and we really don't know whats happening.... but just an EG:

Assassin kills Morpheus in a cut sequence?
We see the Assissin running about before hand.
Now I can suggest, but its unlikely, that had we found the correct area (in Uriah) we may have found the area that the cut sequence was meant to be filmed in, it may have actually happened live too. I doubt it (due to the Assassin exit from hole). Its possible, that from clues where the Assassin was (and others - there are pictures/transcripts of someone talking to Morpheus in Uriah just before his death), we may MAY MAY have been able to interfere, and STOP the assassin. OK, long shot... but it could easily apply to any live situation in-game.

Perhaps the devs always have two directions to take.
1) So that nothing can really be leaked, because we don't know where it would go (see the RP sheet for example).
2) So the devs, and other employees don't know where the story will go.

This increases the chances for us to get involved, and change things! The devs have told us to! The game is heralded with these abilities.... but you are right.. WE MUST NOT PISS THE DEVS OFF! I think offending them would be hard to do, unless we are harming the community in which case they take action.

Who knows where the insectiside stuff is taking us. We have already found information saying that Niobe and others have had secret meetings with certain clans. Perhaps they did something right to get involved.... perhaps. So many clues out there to make you get involved, to make you solve something... they want to select you, to let you in on something special!

This is a good discussion I want to believe that the devs are being truthful when they say we can impact the storyline. Impact? Ok perhaps not change... but get inolved is what they are saying!!

Just FYI I believe I heard EQ had cut their servers from 18 to 6 or something like that? Anyway, a drastic cut which shows that there are problems there now (or the all new stuff is coming out, and they don't want to pay for both).

[Anonymous]

(Not sure if this has been said already, but I can't read the whole thread right now)

As great as this idea sounds, that still doesn't change the fact that if you're on the "Rep Unit" and you're out there trying to get things done, that some group of childish bastards can just pop out of nowhere and gank you senseless because of something that the "PvP Unit" did to them.

Just saying...

I mean I'm all for getting some kind of group together to work on perpetuating our presence in the Matrix as the Furious Angels that everyone used to know and love back in Beta. I always try to go off and do it on my own when I'm just hanging around, but sadly there is nowhere to "hang around" at now that all the reds send everyone running. The community is so suffering on this server.

[Anonymous]

Ket: in another situation ket, you might be on to something, in fact ive had the very same thoughts before. back during beta i saw gabe's fraps video of your meeting with seraph. i think if you guys had contact morpheus earlier and brought him to seraph(which is what seraph wanted you to do) then yes seraph would have gotten his message to morpheus and he might have been saved.

the problem with these situations is that hindsight is 20/20... foresight isnt. and thats what impacting the storyline in these ways requires. almost psychic foresight. as for saving morpheus life this time or that cinematic happening in real time, no. for 2 reasons. A: not possible. u said it yourself, that assassin comming out of the vent thing. the game itself isnt capable of doing the camera angles they used. and the lypsincing for vids 1 and 2 wouldnt be possible in realtime either. that was an FMV. and B: look at the press that went out, every gaming site and their mother had coverage on morpheus death. fuck it was on MTV. if you read thru some of them you would have found out that the watchowski's had planned to kill morpheus early in the game release since the game was in concept. they wanted a big impact on the storyline comming right out the gate. and thats what they got. what the devs want, theyre going to get.

however, yes, we can assume to a certain extent that there may be much more subtle factors that determine involvement in the storyline beyond the riddles. has anyone thought of just firing off emails for shits sake to the game chars and let them know where we stand every once in a while? maybe the reason we didnt get meetings from niobe or morpheus is cuz the devs dont know where we stand with, with ZHC or with Morpheus/Niobe and in that sense didnt know if we could be trusted with any information about a rebellion, in terms of the storyline. why were only 2 factions(at least to our knowledge) contacted about this... i dont think its because they solved some riddles. another thing thats been pecking at my noodle so to speak, CQ points. why are they there? to us they seem to be there for no reason at all. but if theres one thing ive learned about playing games, specifically MMO's, and ESPECIALLY in the matrix, nothing isnt there without a reason. i have been forming a theory, and its only halfbaked mind you, but i think that whatever factions earn the most amount of CQ points for their respective organization between events MIGHT just may be getting treated to some storyline TLC, and the devs arent letting us in on this, just for sake of randomizing it a little. i have no solid proof, its just a thought, but i asked myself "if i was a dev, what would be the point of me putting in CQ points in the game?" and thats what i came up with. the devs are using CQ points as a measuring stick..... for something.... and my best guess is merit for live events interaction.

anywho, hopefully ket you're right and we just cant see beyond our own personal points of view and yes we are actually having options along the way that do impact the story, but so far all the evidence seems to point otherwise.

midnight: that will never happen. key word you used there is "Team" you dont gank teams, you gank stragglers. you dont see team based battles going on unless some kind of event is going down, like the zion/mach party at the club the other day the mervs decided to crash, or the afternoon of the first day of the hunt for morpheus where everyone and their mother was logged, and bored, and in the vicinity of mara central. even live events will almost certainly be running around in teams, herego making you something ppl wont want to fuck with. it would have to be coordinated ahead of time, theyd have to track your movements and not lose you while this team is being assembled, and theyd have to know ahead of time that you WOULD be forming a team just to intentionally fuck with you. its extremely difficult to fuck with a team, and if they gank you, so what. its not going to happen twice, right. you're going to see them again and your going to hyperjump away and continue what you were doing, right? no big deal. i still dont see any reason not to organize this.

[Ketamininja]

Yeah, midnight.. the problem you highlight is really the problem we have just now.
A high lvl Angel kills a medium-high foe; they retaliate by killing a low lvl Angel., and the cycle begins.

I think the PVP-team is more a response to ganking - a message is delivered, and the score is once again tied (they kill one of us, we kill the killers). If the message is not understood by them, and they attack a lowbie again, the PVP-team is brought into action once more.

If the foes say they are getting revenge for the PVP team, then this cannot be true - the game is even after we strike them, any further strikes are of their own accord. If they always look for these attacks on us, then there is nothing we can ever do about these people - see them as gankers.

:S I hope ya'll followed that.

Likwid: Granted, that is a FMV, but what I meant is it may have been acted out in-game ALSO. The FMV wasn't released until after Morpheus died, they could have released a different one if SOMETHING had happened.
You could very well be correct about contacting people in-game.

I'm not sure CQ points has anything to do with live events, don't they have to do with PvPing? - a high CQ could mean you are a ganker, and viewed as troublesome by the community, a low count could mean you are peaceful, or simply new. Plus, I'm not sure how CQ is measured on non-PVP servers that still have the story.

My final thought is, how would the storyline be affected across all servers if we managed to change it? Would it make sense for other servers... and if not, does that blow the whole "change the story" idea?

I digress, we need to stay on topic - at the very least two teams (PvP and Relations) really have not a lot to do with changing stories, but certainly we should get an investigative unit to try to interact, and at least get full details of events that are happening.

o_O

[Anonymous]

I think this thread is getting a bit derailed. The subject we are supposed to be discussing is whether to require members to join a set force (pvp or RP) or to leave it as optional.

I am prone to agree that if it is optional, it will most likely fade away and nothing much will come of it. If it is required it can be organized and any of these plans you would like to attempt will hold a better chance of success. This discussion over whether or not we can truly impact the stroy line(and what is considered story line material) sounds like the perfect start for our RP team, so let's stay focused here so we can get this new system up and running.

[Anonymous]

Professor, the problem is to change the story it requires both good RP as well as signifigant PvP muscle. We cannot do such if the segeragated PvP group refuses to aid the RP group under the impression that doing such is a futile activity.

[Anonymous]

It seems the best route is to start off with the idea that the only dead set time for story are during the actual events. However there is no reason why the RP unit cannot continue to pursue leads and lay out plans between the events. If the RP unit is obstructed by enemy players while attempting this, then the PvP unit will come and kill. RP units will be able to pursue their story, PvP unit will have someone to kill.

Of course this has its flaws, and it does not guarentee that you will get enough people that you need to pull off your RP plans. I also understand that many of us disagree over whether it is even possible to change or impact the story line. However, as it stands now we are pretty much guarenteed not to have enough organization for one of these plans to even get started, let alone succeed. All systems have there kinks to be worked out, but if we worry to much over what if scenarios then we will not get anywhere.

[Anonymous]

In addition to making an impact on the storyline, one of the other main things FA is about is having fun, and seeing where this thread has gone, it seems like there' s not as much of that happening as it used to.

[Anonymous]

thats not going to happen fallout, the point of the PVP team is TO function. if we're the PVP team why would we NOT go and back you up and take care of a problem. we're the PVP team thats our job. and if there's an issue, thats what the leadership is for. they will hand out orders and prioritize targets. its not going to not get done, unless no one is on who can take care of it at all, then thats another story altogether.

[Anonymous]

It seems the best route is to start off with the idea that the only dead set time for story are during the actual events. However there is no reason why the RP unit cannot continue to pursue leads and lay out plans between the events. If the RP unit is obstructed by enemy players while attempting this, then the PvP unit will come and kill. RP units will be able to pursue their story, PvP unit will have someone to kill.

Of course this has its flaws, and it does not guarentee that you will get enough people that you need to pull off your RP plans. I also understand that many of us disagree over whether it is even possible to change or impact the story line. However, as it stands now we are pretty much guarenteed not to have enough organization for one of these plans to even get started, let alone succeed. All systems have there kinks to be worked out, but if we worry to much over what if scenarios then we will not get anywhere.

The problem ultimately spawns from the issue that different players en masse are separating into very different playstiles. Many want to just mindlessly fight and kill other orgs' members and others wish to greatly impact the story and try and fight to make an actual dent in the world.

The issue is, the latter group cannot get there without the former. As it requires an iron will, firm resolve and signifigant muscle to put fully into action. Beacuse this faction is starting to become divided like this, the fun is vastly diminishing as people become sickly apathetic and refuse to aid others. It's like elections all over again "I can't make a difference, they'll never get elected, etc. So I don't wanna go outside and vote!"

Something about that has to be done, something to truly re-unify us to a single cause, to be devoted like we were during beta.

[Anonymous]

wow i cant believe i missed this thread... hmmm well im all for it, sounds great and will hopefully appeal to everyone in the faction, good thinkin boss

[Anonymous]

Hm...as to why we shouldn't try and do things like kill the Assassin to alter the story...hmmm...could be because the product I purchased, and continue to pay for, promised me the feature of a dynamic storyline that may be altered by its players.

Also, as far as altering the storyline, or even impacting it in the slightest, how do you even know we can't influence it? Most everyone is just so lethargic to the idea of getting up and trying to do it. Most just sit there and go "Eh, what's the point? Why bother? We can't do anything."

[Anonymous]

im not saying we cant do it, im saying we're not being allowed to do it. theres a difference. the devs are, at least so far strictly controlling whats going on in the storyline of any significance. any impacts so far have been extremely insignificant. if you want to try and kill the assassin, you go ahead, im telling you its not going to happen. instead of focusing on the things we cant do, how about trying to focus on what we CAN do, thru the PVP and RP teams.