Poll: GTN Control

[Anamodiel]

Maybe we should make a compromise then?

Purples and uber rare materials/items should be a bit more controlled, but the average items shouldn't be of concern? Just a suggestions I thought of while procrastinating.

[likwidtek]

Will guild be flipping the bill on repairs if this is the case? If we are working as a guild donating to the guild to control the market on said items then will guild be funding repair costs ? Or am I going to potentially lose money so the guild can be rich and I have no money to foot the bill for my cost of repairs?

No offense but if I recall, the guild taught you how to not only do Taral V runs which covers your repair bill in 10-12 minutes and you can do it as many times as you want, let alone the guild also provided methods in 1.2 to be able to make even more money in far less time through space combat.  

It's not just that but I hope that we all can agree that if you can't afford your repair bill that I as well as (I hope) nearly anyone in the guild would gladly pitch in to help you.  That's kind of the point to all this.  We help each other, not just ourselves.

Further than that though, seriously, we have a lot of retardly smart guys in the guild that are putting work into keeping the market stable and normalizing prices.  If you are broke all of the time lets get conversations going in TS to see what it is that you could do differently to make sure you always have a stock pile of cash.  We're all here to help each other guys, it's not just every man for himself.  We're a unit.

[likwidtek]

I never look to see who's selling what and don't have the time to do that either.
PS. Less goverment for the WIN

How can you not have time to see the name?  I don't understand this at all. it's RIGHT next to the COST!  Seriously?  

Everyone price checks what the competition is selling stuff before they list.  If you aren't, I can't imagine you sell often at all.  But seriously it's the column DIRECTLY next to the price.

The point is, if you recognize the name as a guild member, and they're the lowest price, simply price match them.  If you do something like under cut them by one penny simply to ensure yours sells faster, and you KNOW they're a guildy, I think that's really frickin rude.  It's just like jumping in front of a teammate in line at the cafeteria.  It's rude!



 

[likwidtek]

Maybe we should make a compromise then?

Purples and uber rare materials/items should be a bit more controlled, but the average items shouldn't be of concern? Just a suggestions I thought of while procrastinating.

As far as I know people are only talking about mats and such.  Not just random loot drops.  I could be wrong though.

[JazzyC]

I don't like GTN control at all. forced inflation of the market is going to make it harder for some of us to sell because we have to sell items at the listed price and hope there are enough buyers to buy our item as well.

Playing the GTN is just as much a game as the rest of it.  There are always buyers for the important stuff (crafting mats, critted items).  By desiring a quick sell, you're not only going to miss out on (potentially) thousands of credits, but you'll deflate the cost for everyone else.  I have a cargo hold full of credits, all held in stock.  Playing the GTN is a waiting game.  Patience is a key factor.  If I chucked everything on there now, I'd be missing the opportunity to make more profit at a later date.  

If you want quick credits, go run Taral V, Malestrom Prison or your Dailies.

plus this turns FA into a corporate mafia of sorts and could give us a black eye on a larger scale.

 

I've yet to know of any gaming guild in any game that has got a bad reputation for controlling the market.  We're competing with gold sellers, GTN campers and alike, who potentially can quickly deflate a market value by constantly undercutting.
This server alone has thousands upon thousands of people.  One guild (certainly of our membership) could not maintain control of a market.  Personally, I'd love it if I could create a cartel for certain aspects of the GTN, it'd just be awesome.  But, the least we can do is not annoy our fellow guild mates by beating them to a sale by dropping our price below theirs.

its ok if the pricing is competitive for everyone out there, but its going to be hard on that new guy that's non guilded to make his money and its going to start to make things sour in the public eye.

The pricing would be competitive.  There are still thousands of people out there.  It would be pointless if we tried to inflate item prices.  We'd be maintaining the market price, potentially aiming to push it up when opportunity strikes.  But overall, I see it as more of an attempt to be fair to other guild mates and not jump in front of them and steal their sale.

[JazzyC]

Poll
What should FA's approach to the GTN be?
FA should set up regulations that prohibit members from doing things such as undercutting other members in order to better control the market.   


Just re-read this ... So what is the presumption here on this? That the first person to post a corusca gem is forever in charge of corusca gem prices? I know that's a bit far fetched but I'd like some details on this... I understand the whole work as a team mentality but I think this is a terrible idea

I'm assuming your first post is totally invalid?  If not, then I don't follow at all what repair bills and donating the guild has to do with the GTN.  Please elaborate.

As for the above quote...
The presumption for me is that most (though I like to think all) of the guild are clever enough to post prices that are reasonable.  I think you are thinking too literally.  The first person to post (going with your example) a corusca gem does in no way control the cost of everyone else posting on the GTN.
Let's look at it from different angles.  

1.  Is the guild member posting the item below what you want to sell it at?
If so, then you have every right to post at a higher price.  You cannot possibly be seen as trying to steal his sales if you're posting the same product at a higher price.

2.  Is the guild member posting the item at above the market value?
Arguably it gets tricky here.  If they're the only person with that item on sale, why don't you match it?  You could end up with a sale from someone desperate for said item.  If you don't, you won't lose anything (you end up with your deposit and items back).
If other people have posted at a significant decrease to your guild mate, then the grey area comes up.  The guild mate could have been taking a gamble, or the other posters could be trying to make a quick sale.

It's here that things would become difficult to control (even just within a guild).  I think a lot of it should be common sense, mixed with a desire to help the guild out as a whole.
However, the apparent desire for a quick sale (ergo, personal greed) has stopped some people from using common sense, and forgetting their guild mates.

[ExternalError]

I agree exactly with what Likwid and Kaplin are saying if I was going to be more active in game and could be arsed to play the GTN anymore after all the agro I got from it I'd say more but frankly I made my credits through playing the GTN but never did I undercut or disrespect a guild members sales.  

I provided everyone here the Taral V details frankly if you cant be bothered to run a 10-15 min run to pay your repair costs your argument is void.  Lets all start thinking of our selves as a family guys and treat each other with the same respect, I'm fed up of the selfish attitudes of some members .

[Saint]

Everyone plays the game in their own way. I dont tell a guildy hey stop swearing youre offending me. I just realize that they are playing how they like to play.Likewise Even though im not huge into the market since pvp is my game when i want to put something on the market Im going to put it up at the price I feel like selling it for and if I feel like taking a loss on said item, well thats my choice and how I want to play the game and even though we all play the game differently were still adults and can be civil with eachother. Granted if I happen to notice a guildie selling an item im not going to intentionally be an $&@ and undercut them but again, thats my choice.

[likwidtek]

Granted if I happen to notice a guildie selling an item I'm not going to intentionally be an $&@ and undercut them but again, that's my choice.

This, personally is my only point.  I'm not proposing "You'll get kicked out or punished for under-cutting a guildy".  I'm simply saying, it's rude to do it and I don't understand why people would do that intentionally to a teammate.

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

I kept quite for a lot of this discussion during the meeting yesterday, mainly because of the confusion I saw around this from the beginning.

Coming into this, I thought we were talking about extremes. I assumed we were all on the same page, but I was incorrect. And why should I have assumed that anyway? Truth is, it's hard to be on the same page without greater clarification, especially when discussing an MMO with so many mechanics and variables as SWTOR.

So, to clarify the stance I think at least a few of us have taken here:

First, let me be clear that I'm not referring to a situation where someone wants to clear out their inventory or bank vault and dumps everything on the GTN at the auto-set prices. That's going to get you a quick sell, but you'll be losing a lot of credits in most cases. I don't think anyone who plays the market can really ge too mad when a price is obviously auto-set.

The situation I thought we were talking about here is more in line with this scenario:
Zephix puts up several underworld trading missions for 20k each. Everything else on the GTN at the time is closer to 25k. Clearly, I've undercut the market to hopefully make a quick profit.
Likwidtek puts up the same missions for 19k each. Clearly having looked at the prices already up, seeing my name, and undercutting me to sell his items first.

This scenario is more in line with what I thought this whole discussion was based on. Someone knowingly undercutting a guild-mate for the purposes of making profit first.

This is just wrong. Likwidtek could have price matched me and still made a profit.

After hearing the discussions during the meeting, I also realize there's another end to this too.
The opposite end of this being that a guildie is setting a retardedly high price and expecting me to price match. That's also wrong. I shouldn't have to list an item up for weeks at a time to try to sell, or have to buy out all the other items off the market just to ensure our items sell before expiring. I don't think anyone expects this right now. (Though, I can see this being on the table if we did want to really set some prices and make profit... though I think that is another conversation entirely, which shouldn't be confused with the undercutting a guild-mate conversation.)

So, there's just no point when I can see the "less government, more freedom" arguement applying here. It'd be the same as saying we shouldn't have stop signs because everyone should be allowed to drive as they want. Who cares who you hurt? You got to your destination faster than they did and that's really all that matters, right?

Bad analogies aside... I feel like the discussion isn't focused enough. I feel like we've gone all over the place with something that really started as a simple issue of one guildie undercutting another. someone jokingly replied to my question last night of "give me one situation where it's ok to undercut a guildie, seriously," with "I really need a white crystal before 1.2." A joke, surely... but probably also true.

As likwidtek said a few times now, we're a unit. We're a team and we help eachother out here. If you're hurting for cash and you've worked hard to make your 2.5 mil... I can't say I'd be in a situation to help you buy that cystal, but I would damn sure help you run some dailies. That's 200k per day. Run then for a week and you're half way there if you toss in a few Taral V runs. We all have time to get the things we want without stepping all over eachother on the way there.

This idea of leaving things open is fine with me... but I won't ever look at anyone the same if they undercut a guildie. (I don't even play the market, so I'm not talking about myself.)

To me it's the same as disrespecting someone in a PVP match or need rolling on loot in a hardmode that you don't need. Many others see it the same way, I'm sure.

Anyway... I just hope we aren't being blinded by confusion here. There are so many arguements that suggest we're trying to vote some "big government" policy into place that prevents people from making money, limiting your ability to repair items during raids or something. I don't think that's what anyone would want.

In my eyes, we're just asking for a policy that says, "dont undercut a guildie on purpose."

Maybe I'm the one who misunderstands the issue... meh. But to me it should be pretty clearcut and seem to be getting convoluted by over-discussion and what-if scenarios that I doubt anyone would ever want to see enforced.

[Tecknik]

After hearing the discussions during the meeting, I also realize there's another end to this too.
The opposite end of this being that a guildie is setting a retardedly high price and expecting me to price match. That's also wrong. I shouldn't have to list an item up for weeks at a time to try to sell, or have to buy out all the other items off the market just to ensure our items sell before expiring. I don't think anyone expects this right now. (Though, I can see this being on the table if we did want to really set some prices and make profit... though I think that is another conversation entirely, which shouldn't be confused with the undercutting a guild-mate conversation.)

But this isn't ever the case.

Those of us that do spend time playing the market, know what these items sell for.  We know because A.) We've watched these items on the market, and/or B.) We've sold these items for the prices we list them at.

Trust me when I say that if it was taking a week to sell these things, I wouldn't be bothering with it.

I know that I never list the few items I sell for more than 1 day.  Why?  Because the items will sell at the prices I list them at in less than that amount of time.  Every day.  I have never undercut a guild member.

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

The small segment of my post you isolated is kind of taken out of context. I'd never suggest that all this discussion is moot because someone was setting high prices. Again, just trying to cover both extremes in the conversation I heard during the meeting and be done with it. Kind of seems to have backfired and only exaggerated the issue I was trying to address though.

The main point I was trying to make, really: We're all focusing on specific scenarios and seem worried one scenario is going to force us all into a constricted, narrow path that is impossible to follow and ends in not even using the GTN, or doing so and being scolded for an honest mistake.

I don't think anyone wants that. From what I can tell, we all want the freedom to do as we need to do. That's great. I also see a lot of folks who seem to want people who do undercut to have some kind of punishment or at least a "talking to."  

I don't think there's a single person who'd argue that a member who repeatedly undercuts other guildies just to advance thier own individual goals is a good thing.