We are NOT a PVP guild, at least not yet!

[Longboard]

I'm sure I'm going to get "push back" or flammed but after being in today's first Ranked Warzone day, we are not a PVP guild. We might as well just put that right out there to chew on! WE got beat by a PUG team and a group calling themselves Team Awesome. (and I have pvp'ed with them in the past and they are NOT that awesome!)

We do not have a enough dedicated PVP'ers to form the proper make-up for Ranked Warzones. We have ZERO excuse for this. WE have known that the Ranked WZ's were coming and how did we prepare?  We are too focused on raiding and not enough on PVP. If that is the way its going to be , then lets call ourselves a PVE guild and we should reconsider being on a PVP server.

If we REALLY want to be a PVP guild, we need to scale back the raiding and get our shit together. We know that we can raid the shit out of the game, lets crank up our PVP now.

Here our some suggestions......

1) Dedicated PVP A Team
2) Dedicated PVP B Team as a back up to the A team.
3) Practice and planning. We need a plan for every WZ, every class.  We get sloppy!
4) Leadership. We need some one to lead the charge and stick to it.
5) Recruitment.  We need to recruit PVP players and possibly absorb a smaller PVP guild from the server transfers.
6) Education and Newbies. Lets get all our new and old PVP'ers geared and educated on the WZ's. It's never too late to start.

PLEASE post feedback and suggestions or just throw in the towel and call us "not so Furious Angels". I don't think you need to be that furious to raid but you DO need to be furious to roll Imp ass!

Ask yourself, where is the  "server impact" that we are looking to make? We have passed the 6 month mark and I don't think we are making the impact that we should be. It's time to show Jung MA what Furious Angels is all about and that is hard to do when we are stuck in raids. If we can show up 5-6 days a week, every week for raiding, why can't we do the same for PVP.

I know that I have beat this subject into the ground so this will probably be my last post on this. (probably). I'm not going anywhere BUT we have lost a lot of good PVP'ers do to our lack of dedication to PVP.  Please take to heart what I'm saying.

[Tbone]

I believe you're placing blame in the wrong place. I've corrected the first half of your post:

I'm sure I'm going to get "push back" or flammed but after being in today's first Ranked Warzone day, I am not a PVPer. I might as well just put that right out there to chew on! I got beat by a PUG team and a group calling themselves Team Awesome. (and I have pvp'ed with them in the past and they are NOT that awesome!)

I do not  PVP enough to help form the proper make-up for Ranked Warzones. I have ZERO excuse for this. I have known that the Ranked WZ's were coming and how did I prepare?  I am too focused on raiding and not enough on PVP. If that is the way its going to be , then I should call myself a PVEer and I should reconsider being in a PVP guild.

From what I understand, a few people got together tonight and tried to do ranked warzones in less than recruit gear. What did you think was going to happen? This is why we need to have an organized PvP team and not just tape together whoever is in TS at the time.

If you're not in almost full War Hero gear, than you were slacking off. I've been raiding for all the Weeknight raids and I still have almost all of my War Hero gear. You can't expect to stop PvPing for two months and then just jump back in and win Ranked Warzones.

We are forming PvP teams. There will be requirements. I almost have the times down for the initial team. I hope to have enough interest for more than one team.

If you aren't in half War Hero, keep doing regular warzones until you're geared enough to tryout for an actual ranked warzone team. If you want to PUG into a ranked warzone team, that's fine too, but we will be focusing on putting together a make up that works. There's no sense in bitching at "the guild" if you didn't put forth the effort while we waited. There's plenty of people that have put in the work, and yes we've lost a few of those people, but I think we can put together a pretty good team.

[Azarov]

I feel this is a perfect example of why the ignored organized PVP up till this point is and has been an issue. It would have helped some of us along faster to War Hero had there been a more FA presence within our WZ groups.

I am one who left for a month a half, I had no choice since i started my own business. I don't see it being a cause of non War Hero status. Had there been more help in the guild to bring everyone along I would have made it well before I took my break.

But that is the past and cannot be changed.

"If you're not in almost full War Hero gear, than you were slacking off. " I find this insulting being one without War Hero gear and see it more as a guild fail. To me this says you are on your own. All those hours in worthless pug wz's was not a pleasurable experience as i am sure anyone can agree.

 I have played nothing but PVP since hitting 50 unless I was taking part in guild fun nights,  going on money runs to support the guild bank or aiding a fellow FA member who was being ganked. I even stopped my very brief raiding stint (a whole 2 or 3 nights) so I could get my Battlemaster gear and then War Hero. This was how I wanted to represent FA, as a force in PVP.  At this point, I am not eligible for a ranked team unless an alternate.

This only adds to the frustration that I already have with the game itself.

 There's no sense in bitching at "the guild" if you didn't put forth the effort while we waited. Again, it's the past that cannot be changed, but the fact we WAITED was not the proper way to go about getting the guild prepared. I did not have the answers myself so I am not putting blame, but Longboards posting 4-6 should have been put into effect months ago, especially #6. These are things that need to be adressed now.  We are a team, let's start being one. No Angel Left Behind!

 I don't know about the WZ's that Longboard was in, but I do agree with everything else he has stated along with all the others that have raised their voices in the past and have mostly left due to feeling it was falling on deaf ears.

I am not bashing the raid groups, I understand those who raid are where they want to be, but the fact is up till this point, FA has been a PVE Guild. Maybe it still will be.

I am also not trying to bash the guild or its leaders, i understand that making everyone happy is not an easy task, but I am in the same corner of the ring as Longboard on this and hope that FA will become the force in PVP I know we are capable of becoming. A strong PVP guild is one who makes a name for themselves on a server and once the cross server WZ's kick in, FA should be feared across the map.

Mark this as Azarov's first venting..... and I hope the last.

A disappointed, frustrated, tired, bitchy and Furious Azarov.

[Lithium]

This is simple. For the last two months there has been consistent teams of PvPers online at all times of the day. Myself and others have put in countless hours and were always in TS awaiting more to join us. When we had WZ night people were looking for instant gratification and when it didn't come they got discouraged and gave up.

If you were interested in PvP and were willing to bang your head sometimes and practice there was more than enough opportunity. If you weren't prepared it's not the guilds fault it's simply your own. Last night was a huge wake up call. People were undergeared, didn't understand the tactics of the maps, and couldn't focus fire.

Now, FA definitely has 8 people who did put in this time and those people will be successful in ranked and we will be scheduling ideal times when we get availabilities. Everyone else who wants to hardcore PvP I suggest you utilize TS and the groups that form every afternoon and evening.

[Mharz]

We in fact ARE a PvP guild.

We are also a Raiding/PvE guild.

Here are some facts and they might hurt.  Sorry but I deal in facts.

1.  We have people who have full war hero gear.

2.  Some of these people PvP everyday for a hour or two or maybe more.

3.  If you work at something everyday and commit to it you become good at it.

4.  If you don't have full war hero then YOU, not the guild, have not committed to PvP.

5.  Events have been on the calendar for MONTHS for PvP and next to no one shows up.

6.  I can't MAKE YOU log in and work hard at PvP.  YOU have to make a choice and do it.

7.  If you lack the time, the commitment, or skill you will be average or worse.  Not just in PvP but in life.

Simply put if you aren't ready in the gear and skill department there is only ONE person to point at.  This guild has ALL the resources to help you be good at whatever you want to excel at but you have to show up and commit.  

The gear, the commitment, those are THE MINIMUM of what The Furious Angels need to join our TOP TEAM.Why?  Because to get that gear you have to play a fair amount of PvP matches and that will increase your skill level (assuming you have the capacity to learn).

The argument that "the guild should have carried me and helped me to get more gear" is laughable.  

Ask Broin who carried him and helped him.

Ask Tbone the same question.

Ask Lithium who carried him.

Ask Adam who MADE him log in and PvP.

Ask Jeyk who helped him log in (often times after everyone else went to bed) and put forth the effort to grind out a full set of War Hero gear.

Is it really fair to the top PvPer in FA to have to play rated WZs with people who just aren't as hardcore?  Who have far less gear, far less skill...  Do you think that's fun for them?

Do you think it really represents FA in the best light to send half geared people who aren't completely committed to PvP out on a ranked team to represent us?

Have a look at the sign up for our team and ask yourself, before you make a negative, poor me I'm not going to PvP on the top team post: "Are you as committed to PvP as the people with the permanent spots?"  If you're not, grab a spot on the alternate roster (like I did) and work on your game and your gear.

Specifically (and I'm sorry but this needs to be said as well):

Longboard - Stop with the negative attitude.  You are personally bringing down more members than I care to list with that attitude.  This post is a perfect example.  Your message isn't a bad one.  Your delivery is fucking awful.  If you want to help, show up, work hard, and be positive.  

Azarov - You can't get gear and get better if you don't show up.  You haven't shown up for months.  Starting a business is a far better use of your time than a game so for that hats off to you but you know(or should know) that you have to work to be successful.  You haven't worked hard enough at PvP to make the top team.  Neither have I.  The difference is, I know it was because I'm just not as committed to PvP as some others.  You had other things taking your time (starting a business is a time sink, I know) and I'm not suggesting you don't have the spirit or you can't commit the time.  Just at this point, you haven't.

Disclaimer - I'm an alternate on the PvP team because I'm not as committed as some people are.  I'm a decent PvPer but I need more time, more gear, and more skill to represent FA in a rated WZ.  I blame myself for not being prepared (and Anamodiel).

[Tbone]

I've been PvPing almost every day, in the afternoons and late at night, and I almost always have someone to PvP with. There have been people in the guild PvPing as a group for months now, so I'm not sure where the idea is coming that we've been "waiting" to PvP. It's still been going on.

I've also helped newbies with basic strategies - just ask Longboard himself. I spent over an hour with him a few months ago going over rotation, etc.

The guild has not been waiting. Just some of the people in the guild decided to wait, and there's nothing I can do about that. Those who decided to wait are going to find themselves frustrated that they can't instantly pick it back up and start winning. I don't expect the regular PvPers to have to carry these people in ranked warzones either, which is why we're trying to put together teams of regular PvPers. I hope that everyone who is frustrated will work hard to get back into shape so that they can have a shot at one of these teams. We'll still be doing regular warzones whenever and with whoever. so make sure to group up with others.

[NoCry]

I blame Ana for my lack of War Hero gear.

I tend to keep my mouth shut, or else go on to the staff forums but I see crap like I see in this thread and I want to scream (longboard,not neccesarily just at you so please dont take it personally:)).

How the flipping (and by flipping I of course mean a much ruder word) hell can you classify a guild which has people in it who only pvp (a la Jeyk) or a guild which has so many valor rank 60/ 70 plus people in it as being a guild which does not "do" pvp.

For fucks sake (sorry, this time I simply must curse) grow up, do your warzones, get in the libertas team and watch what happens when a group of people who do pvp (and who pvp hard) work together. Till then, damn right that you will not be in the team - why not? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! why are you not good enough? BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL IN RECRUIT OR BATTLEMASTER GEAR!! If you do not have the time to dedicate to getting the right gear yourself, dont blame the guild for that, it is your fault - honestly, the screwed up sense of responsibility here is doing my nut in!

I personally have had enough with this bullshit and, for fear of sounding like my trusted chum Broin, stop blaming the guild because you either do not have the gear or can not be arsed to grind out the gear because you dont have people holding your hand through every single warzone!!

[Broin]

Yeah I was just on the can, toilet, what have you taking a big ole shit when I started to read Longboards post....  

And thought to myself "Man this is a horrible shit."

Then I read T's post and the shit got a little better....

Then after Nocry's post I was like yeah this is a good shit...

By the way if you are not geared out, do not know your class, do not know your rotation, do not know how the WZ's go, have not done your homework, then I am probably not going to do RANKED WZ's with you.  

Non ranked sure.  Ranked probably not.  I have been on almost every afternoon for doing WZ's, well until recent personal matters over the past several months have prevented me from doing such.

I have done WZ's with whoever is on in TS or done them alone.  I am  geared out with my augmented War Hero gear main pieces, and only need a few implants and earpiece.  

To complain now with D day arrived is BS.  T has brought it up countless times at meetings to get ready.  You are all big boys and girls, at least I assume we all are, and you are not like the littler ole lady who needs help crossing the road.

Anyways Manic posted this a while back.... I'm thinking he should change it to Nocry after that glorious post

[Longboard]

I believe you're placing blame in the wrong place. I've corrected the first half of your post:

I'm sure I'm going to get "push back" or flammed but after being in today's first Ranked Warzone day, I am not a PVPer. I might as well just put that right out there to chew on! I got beat by a PUG team and a group calling themselves Team Awesome. (and I have pvp'ed with them in the past and they are NOT that awesome!)

I do not  PVP enough to help form the proper make-up for Ranked Warzones. I have ZERO excuse for this. I have known that the Ranked WZ's were coming and how did I prepare?  I am too focused on raiding and not enough on PVP. If that is the way its going to be , then I should call myself a PVEer and I should reconsider being in a PVP guild.

We are forming PvP teams. There will be requirements. I almost have the times down for the initial team. I hope to have enough interest for more than one team.

If you aren't in half War Hero, keep doing regular warzones until you're geared enough to tryout for an actual ranked warzone team. If you want to PUG into a ranked warzone team, that's fine too, but we will be focusing on putting together a make up that works. There's no sense in bitching at "the guild" if you didn't put forth the effort while we waited. There's plenty of people that have put in the work, and yes we've lost a few of those people, but I think we can put together a pretty good team.

Not your best moment Tbone. I bring up an issue that was not negative but existing and I personally get attacked....you are better then that!

In fact, I do PVP so much that I have 2 50's that have a mixture of Battlemaster and War Hero gear. I believe that both toons already have at least 3 pieces of War Hero gear.  My rank on Longboard is 71 Valor and Dark Angel is in the mid 60's. I'm one of the more active members and I'm fairly sure that is not up for dispute. Enough about me since no one should have personally attacked me in the first place.

Yesterday, we had under geared people because no one else was available! We were lucky to even get 8 guildies together. We took what we could get. How about just saying thanks for coming under geared members, we appreciate you trying but this is what we need for YOU and for us to be successful going forward.

Getting "punched in the face" for bringing up guild issues is just ridiculous so please take note that my post did not attack anyone nor did it attack the guild. Were we as a guild, (not I) prepared for yesterday....no. That is the simple truth, the bottom line. I brought up suggestions, not attacks? If saying the truth is an attack, then who is the "ole lady" now?

To Broin's remark, I did not wait till "the day" it started to say something, I have said it before in meetings, also one on one with leadership and in previous forum posts.

And to Mharz's opinion of me, I want to say I think you have it totally wrong, with all due respect. Having strong opinions and passion about something is not a bad attitude and I apologize to you if it came off that way. Also, please take note that during the WZ's yesterday, I was not the ones yelling in TS. Yes, we all were getting frustrated and our passion shows during those moments but I choose to post in the forums to TRY to start a productive discussion instead. If bringing up improvements or issues is attacking the guild....my apologizes then?

Ask yourselves this, why have we lost so many member's over our lack of direction in PVP (their words)? Are they all assholes? Is it all their fault? Kl'ia, Fuse, Faiden, Admiaro, Duio, Jaypee (and there band of marry men), etc. all left because of PVP or the lack of PVP. I feel if you leave FA because of our PVP policies or direction, then we as FA have to look at that and take some blame for it and fix it. It can't be all their faults.

If you want mindless drones for members, say the word and I will shut up. The post was not a lame attempt at a drama post, it was a "something might be broken so lets fix it" post

[Mharz]

And to Mharz's opinion of me, I want to say I think you have it totally wrong, with all due respect. Having strong opinions and passion about something is not a bad attitude and I apologize to you if it came off that way. Also, please take note that during the WZ's yesterday, I was not the ones yelling in TS. Yes, we all were getting frustrated and our passion shows during those moments but I choose to post in the forums to TRY to start a productive discussion instead. If bringing up improvements or issues is attacking the guild....my apologizes then?

Ask yourselves this, why have we lost so many member's over our lack of direction in PVP (their words)? Are they all assholes? Is it all their fault? Kl'ia, Fuse, Faiden, Admiaro, Duio, Jaypee (and there band of marry men), etc. all left because of PVP or the lack of PVP. I feel if you leave FA because of our PVP policies or direction, then we as FA have to look at that and take some blame for it and fix it. It can't be all their faults.

If you want mindless drones for members, say the word and I will shut up. The post was not a lame attempt at a drama post, it was a "something might be broken so lets fix it" post

This is going to be my last post on this because you're so far off the map I'm finding it challenging on a few levels to communicate with you.

1.  Your attitude, about this subject and a few others has been a sore subject with more members than I care to list.  MEMBERS.  

Other people.  MEMBERS.  Not people named Mharz.  

MEMBERS.  Other people.  They complain.  I listen.  I deflect.

I have a thick skin.  I have a personal opinion that you are quick to turn negative but all in all not a bad guy at heart.  When the guy with the thickest skin in the faction tells you that you're being too negative you're way over the line.  In fact the line was a few thousand miles back.

Fix it.  Don't do it for me.. hell if I don't like you I'll just ignore you,mute you, or not game with you.  Do it for the other people who won't tell you how much you're bringing them down.

2.  I never said be a drone and don't share what you think.  However there's a way to share what you think and have it heard and acted on.  Going off and posting a rant like you did, with a thread title like that one is a sure way to piss people off and get a very unflattering image.  

"OMG the sky is falling we're the worst guild in the history of gaming and we don't PvP evah because we're the worst evah!!" is really just insulting to the people in the guild that are REALLY good PvPers.  They get insulted, angry, and then walls get put up.  Walls make communication and problem solving harder.  That's bad.

A far better way to deliver the constructive part of your message would be something like, "We have some work to do in the PvP area.  Here are my suggestions."  By the way, more than a few of your suggestions are reasonable and in fact we've talked about/implemented a few.  My issue, and other people's issue is your delivery.

Posting what you did, how you did it was NOT a way to start a productive discussion.  In fact it was counter productive and rude.

People leave gaming groups.  Game long enough and you see it.  Sometimes you hear why they left, sometimes you hear a simple lie that is told because they can't stand the truth.  And here's the truth, from someone that knows.

Those people you listed, did not all leave because of "lack of direction in PvP."  Not even close.  If that's what you think you've been mis-informed.

[ZephixLeer (Zephic)]

I don't feel I can say much here since I don't play SWTOR anymore, but I do want to chime in on one thing.

Longboard has always been a great guy and a good friend to me. So has everyone in this thread thus far.

I know that he didn't intend to bash the guild with his original post just for the sake of bashing. He had a point. It clearly came across harshly for a lot of you, but I feel like the responses were even more harsh than they needed to be.

He's just making a point. Right or wrong, it's his opinion. It's up to leadership, in my opinion at least, to take it in, put feelings aside and then respond in a cool, calm, and collected way. Bashing him in response set the mood and tone of all replies that came afterward.

Responses could have easily be as nice as "Longboard, I can't say I agree with all your points but I think you have a few solid suggestions. We'll discuss it in the next guild meeting."  /done deal. Or delete the thread and talk to him in TS3. Right or wrong on his part... There's just no need for a public bashing. It's wrong and I don't think it should have happened.

I don't want to flame the drama any more than it already has been, but I gotta say... these types of replies are difficult to read.

I know FA has been through a lot with SWTOR. -But, you can't start bashing fellow members because they say something you disagree with. I didn't read anything in Longboard's post that made me angry. What made me angry were the replies. "No offense, but grow up!" How is that not offensive?

Come on guys... I love this guild and I hate seeing all this going on.

[Azarov]

I sincerely apologize if my post came across as woodie poo, whoa is me, I need a shoulder to cry on. It was surely not my intention. I do not speak for others so I only used my situation as an example that some others may be in.

 To make things more clear, I thought I joined a guild to play on a team. It seems i was unaware until i saw the replies that this guild is more about you play by yourself and join us when you are good enough. I feel FA as a whole does not invest in the individual regarding PVP. If i wanted raid gear, that would have been taken care of swiftly with the help of other members. Not holding hands, not carrying me, but working together as a team to achieve the best for the guild as a whole and its intentions in raiding. I just have not seen this for PVP ,in my opinion up till this point. It is my opinion from my experiences and I have every right to it as you do yours.

I am ALWAYS on teamspeak when logged into the game. I ALWAYS hit up guild chat looking for fellow FA members to WZ with. More often than not, it is Victoriah and I running pug wz's as a duo only. Not all the time, but most of the time.

 Had I been running WZ's more with the team I had joined, I feel the communication we have and the plans we put forth would have resulted in more wins equaling more valor and more commendations which would have brought War Hero to more members faster than we have right now. To say that FA has 8-10 ranked wz ready players out of what, 100 members is where I see guild fail concerning PVP. Sorry if it hurts, but that is how I feel a guild should see it if it wants to call itself a PVP guild. With a more proactive approach to PVP we should have at least 2 full teams ready to go.

 Now normally I am bigger than this, but I would like to quickly comment on the arrogant remarks some have made. I PVP. ALL I do is PVP. Unfortunately I PVP on more losing pug teams which creates a slower progression. To rate my commitment to PVP by looking at what I have achieved I feel is quite unfair. I know my class quite well and am well capable of holding my own against anyone in FA, in fact I have owned a few of you in the past in FA vs. FA wz's.

 My intent was not to bash any individual but rather point out the issues concerning our readiness for Ranked PVP as a whole. I have spoken briefly in the past, but I always let other members take the stage as they have always said what I wanted to anyway. This is not just now being brought up by any means.

 This will be my last post on this subject as I prefer to refrain from seeing the condescending remarks towards those that speak from personal experience and don't just go with the flow.

  I'm sorry if I just prefer to play with all your ugly asses and beautiful women of FA.

  Sue my white ass.

[Tbone]

I believe you're placing blame in the wrong place. I've corrected the first half of your post:

I'm sure I'm going to get "push back" or flammed but after being in today's first Ranked Warzone day, I am not a PVPer. I might as well just put that right out there to chew on! I got beat by a PUG team and a group calling themselves Team Awesome. (and I have pvp'ed with them in the past and they are NOT that awesome!)

I do not  PVP enough to help form the proper make-up for Ranked Warzones. I have ZERO excuse for this. I have known that the Ranked WZ's were coming and how did I prepare?  I am too focused on raiding and not enough on PVP. If that is the way its going to be , then I should call myself a PVEer and I should reconsider being in a PVP guild.

Not your best moment Tbone. I bring up an issue that was not negative but existing and I personally get attacked....you are better then that!

That wasn't an attack on you. It wasn't aimed directly at you. I'm saying you and anyone else who is placing blame on someone else is coming at it from the wrong angle - the wrong perspective.

A few of you guys got together with people who hadn't PvPed in two months and freaked out when you didn't win. That should be expected. Does that mean we're not a PvP guild? No. Did you have 8 people to form a group with to PvP? Then congrats, it's a PvP guild. Just that there shows you that the guild is functional and interested in PvP.

Honestly it's very insulting for someone to come in here and claim that the guild is or isn't this based on them losing a PvP match or for any reason. This sort of negativity is cancerous and poisonous. It's little more than slander. It's not a way to start a conversation. It's not a way to treat anyone with respect. It doesn't conclude in any positive outcome. I'm sick of it from a lot of different people.

I invite you into my home. Let you use my amenities. You track in mud and then tell me my carpet is too muddy. Then you get offended by me telling you to take your freakin shoes off. I don't want to hear anymore whining. Not on TS. Not in game. Not on the forums. If you have concerns, send me or someone a PM and intelligently let us know what your concerns are. This post was merely someone venting for losing in a PvP match. Now it isn't just Longboard - I'm speaking to everyone. I'm sick of these kind of negative posts and it gets me to be negative and I just don't like it.

Now to ignore the way you posted your initial post and address your concerns.

1) We have this.
2) We have alternates. Hopefully we'll have enough to form a second team.
3) Each PvPer should have been practicing and planning this whole time. We will be doing regular warzones while waiting for ranked to pop. This will be the time to try out advanced strategies.
4) We have this.
5) We have applications in queue. Recruit by PvPing more. Word will get out.
6) The PvPers have been PvPing this whole time with whoever is around. We'll continue to do this. Take initiative and jump in the PvP TS channel.


Honestly you guys decided to try your hand at ranked PvP before I had time to throw up the sign ups. I've been slammed with work the past week (since before they announced 1.3 was going live) and have been playing catch up. I will continue to be busy until the end of this week and then I'll have a lot of free time for like two months. This thread just jumped the gun before I could post sign ups. That's all there is too it. It was blown out of proportion by the hyperbole used.

We are a PvP guild. I don't care if we lose every fucking ranked warzone we ever play. We'll still be playing them, and if I hear anyone bitching while we're doing it, I'll tell you to stop QQing and just keep PvPing. If you don't trust this, please quit the guild so I can PvP against you and force you to bitch to some other guild about how I keep raping you with my lightsaber

[Tbone]

To make things more clear, I thought I joined a guild to play on a team. It seems I was unaware until I saw the replies that this guild is more about you play by yourself and join us when you are good enough. I feel FA as a whole does not invest in the individual regarding PVP. If I wanted raid gear, that would have been taken care of swiftly with the help of other members. Not holding hands, not carrying me, but working together as a team to achieve the best for the guild as a whole and its intentions in raiding. I just have not seen this for PVP ,in my opinion up till this point. It is my opinion from my experiences and I have every right to it as you do yours.

We tried having set PvP times for people to come on and play. We have had these set times for a while now. The problem is inherit with the type of PvP we were limited to. Open PvP was pretty much done away with. Warzones were limited to four people. So we tried to split up into groups of four, but it's just not quite the same and each week less and less people showed. It got to the point where no one was showing up anymore, so it became more of an unofficial time. This is a product of the initial design of the game (lack of 8-man queuing) rather than anything we did.

As a result we shifted to a "if you're in-game, be in TS and in the PvP channel" approach so that when people PvPed, they could group up. Almost all of our PvPers have done this, and I haven't seen anyone turn down a chance to group up for PvP. I usually am doing this in the early afternoon and very late at night. I assume it's going on while I'm at work and while we're raiding, though.

You can't just pull someone through raids to get them PvP gear like you can for PvE. It takes months to get all your Warzone gear even if you do your dailies EVERY DAY. I still have one or two pieces left, and I've been pretty consistent at it. So if you haven't been doing this, no one can help you gear-wise. It's the same for strategies. You're only gonna learn if you do it a lot and with other people. If you haven't been doing that, there's nothing we can do for you.

The reality is, yes, I'm not going to tell the dedicated PvPers that they have to put on hold ranked warzones so that they can spend two months helping out those who haven't been participating slowly grind out their gear and figure out their class. It isn't fair to them or the guild. We'll still be doing regular warzones while ranked queuing and during unscheduled times, so when you see people in the PvP channel, hop in and join in. That's the best way to learn.