Politics: Healthcare

[Da6onet]

This is why I think Batman should run health care.

/agree

Though there would be more grunting.

[Lithium]

You say that giving free healthcare is like taking care of people because they are lazy? Canada has Universal Health Care and their unemployment rate is 8.6%. England has UHC and their unemployment rate is 7.8%.

America's unemployment rate is 9.7% on the average.

Alright, I cannot believe I missed this ridiculous argument.

Here has been America's unemployment rate over the past 20 years.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&q=unemployment+rate+US

Let us make it more fun and view California (very liberal state) and Texas (very conservative state)

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST060000:ST480000&tstart=631152000000&tunit=M&tlen=236

Wow, a graph says a million words.

Average unemployment in this country was probably about 5.5% until the last few months. And was above 7% periodically for 3 or 4 years. No where near Canada and England's unemployment rates.

Is the argument that we should accept healthcare, handouts, free rent checks from the government and accept higher unemployment because we are lazy bastards?

Obama claims a few days ago that the government created thousands of jobs. 640K to be exact.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_650824.html

Days later, unemployment jumps 'astronomically' 0.4 percent to 10.2% after the expectations of only a 0.2% increase or less.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

None of that really matters though. Because it is somehow 'proven' that healthcare is more important to push through (despite being broke, mind you) Maybe it will create jobs and spark the economy?

Get real, look at the facts, it will create fraud and more unemployment. And the economy is recovering! The DOW is back up near and was over 10K again a few days ago. Corporations are cutting costs and cutting employees and I don't blame them. How many corporate psychologists do they really need?!? Is anyone really surprised that America produces more psychologists and art majors than all types of engineers? And people are finding out their degrees are worthless. Big surprise.

Medicare Fraud: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml

In closing Obama wants congress to vote for healthcare not because of any proven benefits but for a liberal legacy.

[Obama] reminded [democrats] of the legacy they can build.

"This is their moment," he said. "This is our moment to live up to the trust that the American people have placed in us. Even when it's hard. Especially when its hard. This is our moment to deliver."

He closed by saying: "I urge members of Congress to rise up to this moment, answer the call of history and vote yes for health insurance reform for America."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/07/AR2009110702551.html?hpid=topnews

[Da6onet]

Healthcare as a for profit model works when you want to prevent abuse on the part of the individual.

Healthcare as a catch-all plan with mandatory pay-in system for people earning 40k and up (most Americans) works when you want to prevent abuse on the part of private insurance companies.

Ideally a healthcare system that prevented both people and insurance companies (current plan up for vote) from abusing the system would be best. However, Lithium is probably right in that it would just increase the abuse on both sides.

So then the question becomes, would you rather be screwed by your insurance company or screwed by your government.

The argument of "well I can pick and choose my insurance provider/elected officials" doesn't seem to hold weight considering both are oligopolies.

[Tbone]

Health Care bill passed in the House.

[Fuse]

I am REALLY trying to bite my tounge and hold back on this for a little while longer until I read more of the bill myself, but this line pissed me off...

From: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091108/D9BREBKG1.html
"A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi compared the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later."

Right... Two of the most bankrupt, corruption ridden, and financially under-estimated government programs created are your examples?

[Fuse]

http://www.lostlocalhost.com/?view=plink&id=272

...and all through the House, they were bitching at the Senate calling them un-American and lazy. WTF? For or against, thier job is to question and I still doubt any one of them have read the 2,000+ page bill.

And outside...
On the edge of the healthcare vote in the Senate, people on both sides are speaking up. Regaurdless of what your political beleifs are, you can't argue that recent times are getting people more interested in what goes on in government. I don't think anyone can say that's a bad thing.

http://www.politico.com/largevideobox.html?bcpid=15202024001&bclid=1201016315&bctid=57512244001

Sidenote: I think this sign was halarious: "If I wanted to be ignored I'd marry you, not elect you!"

[Lithium]

This is enough information for me.

But Democratic Sen. Max Baucus said it would be impossible for the Senate to certify that all its members understand the bill.

[Broin]

Sitting Senator threatened by a sitting President to support a specific bill or risk having a key military installation shut down in your state.  

Now imagine that Bush is in office and not Obama and what do you think people would be saying.... I'll give you a hint.  It is a one word response that starts with IM and ends with PEACH

[Fuse]

Broins in my head.

Three out of Five Citizens Agree!

60-40. That ratio represents two things. First, it is the ratio of votes that helped move the new healthcare plan throught he senate. Second, it is the approximate ratio of people who oppose the bill to those who support.

Here's some stats from Rusmussen to back that up... (Week of Dec19th)
-55% opposed, 41% favor (Just 19% Strongly Favor the plan while 45% are Strongly Opposed)
-Senior citizens: 60% opposed, 33% favor
-32% of dems, 80% of rep, and 64% not affiliated with any party oppose the health care plan
-57% say passing nothing would be better than passing this, with 54% saying they will be worse off if it passes.
-53% say it will most likely lead to lower quality of care
-58% say it will drive the cost of care up
-66% say free market principals would reduce healthcare costs more than government
-Most adults under 30 approve of this plan, while a majority of every other age group oppose

Representatives have accepted what essentially equates to bribes in order to pass this. The public does not want this by a wide margin. It is unconstitutional to require someone to buy something just for living. These representatives purposely hide the bill, spend less time discussing it than most other bills, and fail to even read and understand everything that is in it. The goals outlined are either not met with this new legislation, or can be achieved with far less cost in the free-market system. This does not address tort reform, inter-state sales of insurance products, or massive fraud and financial shortfalls in the current government run medical systems. We are going to start paying immediately for this, but won't see results for 4 years. Ten years of payment will support six years of this healthcare. The majority of healthcare professionals fear this reform. Lawyers love this reform.

So, assuming representatives truly represent the American people, why and how did this pass?