The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => Non-VR Games => Topic started by: Broin on October 12, 2011, 08:20:21 pm
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http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/
So anyways I believe this is the updated and live version of the talent tree for the Jedi Consulars. At least it all looks correct to me
Presonally I've been debating on which way to go....
Balance or Telekinetics
Anyways see what kind of build you might want to put together. Then post about it here...
What you are choosing and reasons why.
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I really can't decide until I get in game, but right now I'm leaning towards 31/3/7 build or similar. This of course is only based on what I can read - but I want to max dmg and crit.
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Yeah I'm looking to that but am also interested in Telekenetics
By the way that link is for Sage only. The main link is here
http://torguild.net/calculator/
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yeah, I started looking at a tele build, but I'm split... Would love to hear opinions from testers -I know I saw some in another thread somewhere...
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Apparently Shadow talent tree is inaccurate so I will have to wait to determine my build.
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I didn't check out the Shadow during last BETA, but Lithium was in it. I think the Balance is the same for both. But not for sure.
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5/3/33 Kinetics Build
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=3020000000000000000030000000000000000003232020212230013151
Now I'm not in the beta but from just reading the tree by itself this seems like a viable build. It will be impossible to tell what will really be the bread winner without actually getting to do it myself.
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im built for balance on my sage at the moment and its working out very good i find the telekinetic throw ability to be 1 of the most used plus if you trait balance you often get a free no induction cast of 1 of the other 2 induction attack abilitys which seriously spikes the dps.
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this is using the Sith Assassin tree due to it being updated. As soon as the Shadows tree get updated I will transfer the builds to it.
for melee Dps (http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2030000000000000000023230021110322021513020000000000000000)
For tanking (http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=1233223111223101323120000000000000000000200000000000000000)
Feel free to tweak either.
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I'm pretty tempted to go Shadow for my first character.
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They just updated the Shadow build!
Here is the Balance Tree I am thinking about. This is a pure Force/Saber DPS CC build.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=3022302122201122321203000300000000000002000000000000000000
Notice how I took speed reduction and Force Stun talents along with DPS Talents. This is probably going to be what I will shoot for at launch, as I want to have a number of ranged and melee tools at my disposal; while having plenty of abilities to lock or slow my target down.
Here is an Infiltration build that is meant to come out of stealth, do tons of damage, keep the enemy close, and put the Jedi back into stealth should the target gain the upper hand.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=0020000000000000000203010000000000000002323202111032022151
Notice how I spent an extra point for Elusiveness - this is handy for getting away from the target, or keeping close to finish off the target.
This next build is what I would like to try for a tanking build. This is a pure tank. Note, I did not take Elusiveness because I don't know what the effects are for Combat Technique. Naturally, I'll change this if the effects of Combat technique compliment tanking (which they probably will).
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=3200020000000000000023320011122311132312000000000000000000
Notice subduing techniques, Force Synergy, and Focused Insight. Took those to increase endurance, increase chance to critical strike, and to provide a bit more defensive longevity. Very impressed with the Shadow's tanking build.
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Tanky dps that will never die. For those of you who play LoL think a tanky talon that melts faces
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I'm built for balance on my sage at the moment and its working out very good I find the telekinetic throw ability to be 1 of the most used plus if you trait balance you often get a free no induction cast of 1 of the other 2 induction attack abilitys which seriously spikes the dps.
Yeah I was wondering what the difference between the Balance Sage and the Balance Shadow would be.
What are all of yours take on the FORCE IN BALANCE ABILITY and TELEKENTIC WAVE ABILITY and linked abilities to those in the Sage trees?
I didn't get to much of a chance to mess with the FORCE IN BALANCE one.
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I'm built for balance on my sage at the moment and its working out very good I find the telekinetic throw ability to be 1 of the most used plus if you trait balance you often get a free no induction cast of 1 of the other 2 induction attack abilitys which seriously spikes the dps.
Yeah I was wondering what the difference between the Balance Sage and the Balance Shadow would be. The abiliites are very very similar. Looks like only 4 ability difference
Nah, more than Four ability Differences. Here are the differences per row.
Row 1 -
Sage: Empowered Throw - Will of the Jedi
Shadow: Force Synergy - Force Focus
Row 2 -
Sage: Critical Kinesis
Shadow: Psycokinesis
Row 3 -
Sage: Psychic Barrier - Telekinetic Balance
Shadow: Mental Potency - Adjudication
Row 4 -
Sage: Presence of Mind
Shadow: Force Strike
Row 5 -
Sage: Drained Thoughts - Assertion
Shadow: Sharpened Mind - Twin Disciplines
Row 6 and 7 -
No Difference
Reference:
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/
Edit:
Sorry for that weird double post.
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Yeah caught that right after I posted so changed my original post...
Here are my proposed builds so far
SAGE - TELEKINETICS
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=0000000000000000000032030200000000000003130221012230013151
SAGE - BALANCE
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=3022302111221122321032030200000000000000000000000000000000
I personally like the idea of haivng the stun applied to those who break my force armor. Gives me a chance to survive a few seconds more to either get away or heal myself or someone else. So I'll probalby go with that on both.
Plus the Psychic Infussion which gives the 10% bump in AOE damage and Heals seems to be a must if you are going to take FORCE IN BALANCE or TELEKINETIC WAVE
Thoughts.... Ideas....
KEEP EM COMING
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I think I will go with a build like this one:
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=2000000000000000000203000300000000000002323002111032022151
I will modify once I get an understanding of what Force Breach, Mind Snap, and Force of Will do.
My main focus will be stealth/melee DPS.
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Well, it definitely seems like most people are going more of the DPS route. I'm truly torn. I really want to be able to heal well, but at the same time I get frustrated in PVP/PVE when I can't deal the amount of damage that I feel I should be able to.
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http://thefuriousangels.com/index.php?msg=110345
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Although I plan to play a Trooper, I think I can help a bit here...
If it makes your choice any easier, keep in mind you CAN respec once for free, unless that was a beta-only thing.
So personally, I intend on going Combat Medic early on, then maybe switching to Assault or Gunnery later in the game, depending on how useful healing is with the group I end up running with a majority of my play time.
As long as you can determine which AC you want, you're likely to end up ok either way you go.
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I can't imagine Ana not being a heavy healer
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Here's my build I will be working towards. I'm currently a level 17 Shadow.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=3022300122221122321003000000000000000000321010000000000000
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Jedi Sage
PVE/PVP Damage - http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=3020322131201123321020000000000000000000230200000000000000
Plays like a shadow priest and does soo much damage. The last 9 points I have to play around with. Crit scales very well with Sages, but I don't its worth the full 3 points. Essentially, the rotation is throw up all your dots and spam telekinetic throw (TT), refresh dots, rinse and repeat. Aside from PvE, I have done very well with this spec. Telekinetic has a lot of burst in PvP, but the ability to spam dots on multiple targets and then spamming TT for the damage and slow is annoying for the other team.
PVE/PVP Healing - *working on it*
There will be dual specs so I'll pick up a healing spec. Might end up main healing, but honestly I excel at killing internet dragons and e-thugs.
As for the healing spec itself, there is alot of avoidable talents depending if your going to PvP or PvE heal...I used a PvE healing spec and I did fine, but still need to play around with the calculator.
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Jedi Sage
PVE/PVP Damage - http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=3020322131201123321020000000000000000000230200000000000000
Plays like a shadow priest and does soo much damage. The last 9 points I have to play around with. Crit scales very well with Sages, but I don't its worth the full 3 points. Essentially, the rotation is throw up all your dots and spam telekinetic throw (TT), refresh dots, rinse and repeat. Aside from PvE, I have done very well with this spec. Telekinetic has a lot of burst in PvP, but the ability to spam dots on multiple targets and then spamming TT for the damage and slow is annoying for the other team.
this is pretty much the build im heading for on my sage works very well in pvp
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I'm hoping the tree's are balanced out because I really don't want to see the "Balance" tree nerfed. :)
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It seems like the trooper trees on that site are out of date; or maybe based on a newer build?
Edit: I hope that's out of date... the assault tree is horrible.
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looks like they updated the shadow trees
tanking (http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=0200000000000000000123322311122310132312000000000000000000)
Dps (http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=3020000000000000000203000000000000000002323002111032202151)
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I'd like some input from our guys in the open who are playing consular to let us know what appears to be a must to have for each type of tree you may be going for.
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I really don't know what I want to put points in without seeing the actual abilities. I want to be pure Crowd Control support, so damage and healing are secondary to extra status effects. It looks like Telekinetics is my best bet, but some of the Balanced skills look very nice as well.
I also REALLY need to know which CC abilities function identically in PvP as in PvE and which are modified for "balance" reasons.
Jedi Sages in beta, help us out here. Most of the other Consulars are focusing on either DPS or healing, but don't forget us CC-whores.
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Balance tree in all respects is what I was picturing for my character at launch. Double sided saber, exceptional melee abilities with complementary force powers. I'm sure that there will be some type of duel-spec eventually, as I usually like to play a tank character. Either way, if the balance tree doesn't work out, I'll probably go Shadow/Tank.
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In my experiences since the game that shall not be named was launched, I've always played the class that could do everything or close to it (Druids and Paladins).
This is one of the main reasons I'm excited about the Consular class, it's a kind of Master of all trades. I will be building sets for all roles once the "Dual Spec" system is in place, however my main focus for Guild content will be a Healer.
The great thing is, I'm one of those players that can fill any role when needed because I enjoy playing my characters to the fullest. Consular is such a great class for said play style.
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I have played consular both times i got a beta run got to about level 20 on each... first one was a Jedi Sage i was ranged DPS which worked well, i really enjoyed that spec, but I respeced and went heal spec on that at about level 15, i was surprised at my longevity and popularity in flashpoints and group quests with the heal spec (Healers are a dime a dozen thus far in beta). I think what impressed me the most was i could heal and keep a group alive and throw a few DPS attacks out while doing it. I was also very efficient single questing... i could set Quyzen Fess to tank mode and heal him and throw some decent dps out as well and take out most group quests that were classified as 2+.
Second time around i went Shadow - Telekinetic (tank) spec. Until i got a companion that healed my longevity was much worse than the sage. Being that i am not really a tank and never was really good at it i expected the experience to be somewhat frustrating... but once i got into a routine (and my companion throwing me heals occasionally) i really enjoyed the spec, however i was not nearly as popular in flashpoints and group quests... people tend to be somewhat negative towards the light armor tank types, but in the hands of someone better at tanking i see no reason why the Telekinetic spec tank could not main tank quite effectively.
They are still setting up the new build but next time around i am hoping one of my pre-made characters is a consular so i can play with a higher level right out of the gate.
As to specific specs... i never was really good at that... i just kinda go with what i like and what seems to work for me. I usually got criticism from elitists who 'knew' the perfect dps spec or the perfect rogue spec, or perfect tank spec... i usually was never top of the DPS or the best tank out there... but was also never the worst. When i went with their suggested rotations/specs i never saw a great improvement. Which disturbingly enough means i am a stunningly average player... hmmm think i just insuled myself.
For tank i was working towards something like: http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=3200022000000000000023302311102310132310000000000000000000
the healing aspects of some of those skills are helpful, at the lower levels only slightly but hey every little bit helps... oh its also fun to use your stealth ability as a shadow to sneak into the middle of a mob then do an AOE or something gets the aggro of the mob right quick. Follow it up by a few good solid hits and another AOE and unless your DPS/Heals is drawing way too much aggro or not attacking your target you're good to go.
For Heal i'd do something like: http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=0000000000000000000032330221221220122313200020000000000000
I found the bubbles to be quite helpful... you shield yourself/companion or party members and you're not healing the entire time... I found it quite effective. Really if you have a good tank you don't have to waste force shielding yourself or the DPS, as they take the aggro. If they aren't so good its a good idea to shield yourself as well...
Again i haven't done much of the DPS version of the consular... i did play with the ranged DPS which was great fun... send your companion in stand back and blast them. I am very much looking forward to playing with the shadow Melee DPS tree in this next build. Unless the group decides to go empire side at which point not sure what ill do... probably an inquisitor melee DPS.
Sorry i know i am not a lot of help when it comes to exact details and what not, but i tend to go with what feels right for me not necessarily the best spec out there... but i can say... anyone playing a consular (i feel) will completely enjoy the class, the story line is good, the class if fun to play (good ranged attacks and heals for sage... stealth and dual light-sabers for shadow), The class is very a versatile, utilitarian class... we can Main/Off Tank, Main Heal, Off Heal/DPS, Range DPS, Melee DPS and we have stealth capability.
Those of us playing a Consular class, are truly all that and a bag of chips........ Now if we could just get rid of the dresses we'd be golden.... excuse me... robes... or are they long kilts...
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My healing build was pretty similar only change i made was I dropped Valiance and egress in favour of Imuttable Force and Will of the jedi as I was able to get a bit more healing done with this build when i was min maxing. http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=0020000000000000000232330221021200122313200020000000000000
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and this was my ranged dps pvp build I didnt cap the tree because in pvp my main stratergy would be to dot everyone up with my weaken mind then pick 1 target and use Telekinetic throw and project until they died using mind crush whenever i got a no induction cast crit. Worked very well and when i got into trouble I would 4sec stun them bubble up wait for them to break then hit them with a 60sec stun back up and proceed to blast them to pieces.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=3122302031201023100030000000000000000003032200002000000000
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Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm really looking forward towards playing a Consular.
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Planning a Sage, but I'll be damned if I can decide on which way i want to go with my sage.
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^ same lol
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After this most recent beta weekend and based on my limited experience in game (level 17 and Valor rank 8), I'm looking at this build or something similar.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=000000000000000000032002212012002000003022300131221022000
As you can see, it's heavily focused on CC abilities with a PvP intent. As far as I have seen, most characters have exactly one "break free" ability to get out of CC. With this build, I'll have far more ways to pin my target in place and keep him vulnerable than he will to escape.
I'm NOT a healer and even damage is secondary. My whole focus is to isolate and lock down targets so my team can dish out the pain.
Alone I'l likely get worked by a DPS specialization, but if I have my way he won't even be able to touch us.
Those of you who have played a Sage to higher levels, what do you think? Is there any way to squeeze in more CC skills, or is a CC-centric build even viable?
As a side note, holy crap is the Consular powerful (maybe even overly so). In warzones I was routinely topping the scoreboards in damage, healing, objectives, AND medals. There were very few rounds where I was not within the top 3 of all categories except protection (force armor doesn't grant protection points in PvP). Honestly, being able to do EVERYTHING that well seems a bit off to me.
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At the next meeting I think it might not be to bad of an idea to have all the people wanting to play Consular have a seperate discussion time to go over some stuff. I think I am like Keeloth and many others... Not sure which way to go on my Sage build. Hopefully you guys who have been in open Beta can join us and we can figure it all out.
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I currently have a hole in the interview schedule for next Monday. If we spend 30 minutes at the main meeting, it might be an idea to have everyone break out into their respective class groups to theory craft for 30 minutes until the first interview so that we
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Sounds good
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I currently have a hole in the interview schedule for next Monday. If we spend 30 minutes at the main meeting, it might be an idea to have everyone break out into their respective class groups to theory craft for 30 minutes until the first interview so that we
Ana? ANA?!
Oh no! He was kidnapped mid-sentence!
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Fell in love with Shadow last weekend. Scrapping the plans to have my Smuggler as my main, or a sage as my secondary.
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At the next meeting I think it might not be to bad of an idea to have all the people wanting to play Consular have a seperate discussion time to go over some stuff. I think I am like Keeloth and many others... Not sure which way to go on my Sage build. Hopefully you guys who have been in open Beta can join us and we can figure it all out.
Heal tree is unstoppable and they only die when you run outta force. Currently in warzones there isn't a way to drop combat to regen. Currently in pvp you can never drop combat unless the guy you engaged dies. Although I expect this to be fixed by launch. Most MMO's have a 5-8 sec window after the last engagement and then it drops combat and then the regen ability becomes usable.
The Balance tree is the OP, super pvper, spot healer, iWin spec, for pvp.
The other tree, Telekinetics, focuses on more direct casts and higher burst than balance(which is more DOT based).
The real kicker for the balance tree is the no cooldown talent (Telekenectic Balance) on the channeled spell (Telekinetic Throw). It makes Telekinetic Throw a spammable CC that does a lot of damage.
The consular has so many more CC and toys to play with than other classes.
Telekinetics http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#600ZbsbrdRrupzZcr0M.1
Unstoppable Seer http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#600GG0RrdrdRzZfobM.1
iWin Balance http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#600ZbsbMZcrfRsMkbfz.1
There are a few things you can play around with in there but for the most part, feel free to experiment.
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@Erathaol:
I really like where you're going with this build; I have always had a soft spot for hybrids. As your gear improves, you'll find that you'll be able to drop Inner Strength for Clamoring Force in Telekinetics. As your play improves (you're a CC beast with this build), you'll most likely find that the pushback skills can be dropped. You'll be able to trade Concentration for both Mind's Eye and maxing Telekinetic Defense or Psychic Projection in Telekinetics, though gear level might also be a factor in this choice. Psychic Barrier could be traded for at least Force Suppression and any of the three left blank in the first two tiers of Balance.
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Sage full healing tree ... Not sure about the extra yet I'm doing more research
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Kinetic/Balance Tanking Hybrid.
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^^^what he said.
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Earth Bender
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@Erathaol:
I really like where you're going with this build; I have always had a soft spot for hybrids. As your gear improves, you'll find that you'll be able to drop Inner Strength for Clamoring Force in Telekinetics. As your play improves (you're a CC beast with this build), you'll most likely find that the pushback skills can be dropped. You'll be able to trade Concentration for both Mind's Eye and maxing Telekinetic Defense or Psychic Projection in Telekinetics, though gear level might also be a factor in this choice. Psychic Barrier could be traded for at least Force Suppression and any of the three left blank in the first two tiers of Balance.
With your advice in mind and a bit more PvP experience, I now have a revised build focusing entirely on CC and Telekinetic Throw (Force Pebbles). Since most of my bread-and-butter abilities are insta-cast, I'll be focusing more on Critical than Alacrity.
While leveling, I'll for sure be putting 3 points in Psychic Barrier and Inner Strength. Perhaps at max level it won't be as necessary, but until then Force management in long boss battles is absolutely crucial.
Anything I'm leaving out? How do you think this sort of CC hybrid build will stack up against a full single-spec? Which Sage would YOU want by your side?
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=000000000000000000012302022022002000003222022101221102000
EDIT:
To put some concrete numbers behind this build, here's the CC I can dish out, ignoring slows entirely.
At Will:
Force Lift - 45 sec CD 60 sec stun untouched + 2 sec stun premature
Force Stun - 50 sec CD 4 sec stun + damage
Force Wave - 20 sec CD 5 sec AoE root + damage and knockback
Conditional:
Force Armor - 4.5 sec CD (20 sec renew) 3 sec AoE stun untouched
As a best case scenario, I'm relatively confident I can lock down 2 targets indefinitely, with a potentially infinite number of targets being hindered directly by my CC.
As a worst case, I can keep a single target locked down for about 6 seconds, with a guaranteed 2 seconds at least even if they break free with an ability. If I am splitting my CC and everything is going as absolutely bad as it can, I can STILL stun two targets for 2 seconds.