The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => Off Topic => Topic started by: Adad on May 02, 2011, 09:16:27 am
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I figured someone would bring it up, so why not do so myself. I don't know how everyone feels about it or anything like that. Like most, I am very glad it was done and I would like to be the first to thank Broin for making it happen. Unlike some, I know this is far from the end of our fight against terror, nor does it make us any safer, but he had to be brought to justice. I did not start this thread for a political debate, so I hope that does not break out, simply to thank Broin and bring up what inevitably would be. God bless America.
Double-Tap FTW
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America!! Fuck Yeah!!
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You're late if you look in the Randomness thread, but I think this deserves it's own. My feelings as I mention HERE (http://lostlocalhost.blogspot.com/2011/05/may-1st-2011.html) and in the randomness thread...
Waldo 1; Osama 0; (But he put up a good fight)
How damn hard was it to catch a 6'5 jihadist carrying around a dialysis machine from cave to cave? /facepalm
Everything has it's pros and cons... America is obsessed with retaliation and retribution - which can be warranted, but it should never be an end goal and should never cause someone to lose sight of the real threat. Osama the man wasn't a threat, it was the ideas he represented and after him is another 200 folks in line for his job.
I have an eye-for-an-eye mentality when it comes to punishment, so I am happy that he has the chance to meet God and be judged - but I am also pretty surprised to see so many people scream and shout as if the war is over and everything can go back to pre 9/11 days. If the goal of the military was to get retribution, it's time to bring our troops home now more than ever. When that happens I will be jumping for joy in the streets.
Also, President Obama had a very nice speech. Probably my favorite, or in the top three. Undoubtedly, it will be his "historical" presidential speech. He briefly discussed the concepts behind the 9/12 project, who the enemy was, why they were the enemy, why we went to war (giving hidden props to Bush in the process), the families of those who lost loved ones on 9/11, and an appropriate-enough description of the intel and process of what happened. He acknowledged that the effort is not over and the fight is not done, and is not against a religion. Best of all? He did not omit "under God" again when quoting the Pledge of Allegiance. For that, we thank you.
Also, yes. It was broin.
Supposedly, this is the first pic of deadOsama. http://pikchur.com/Af0J
Also, I am disgusted at the sights I'm seeing here. People are cheering the bloodlust of this, not the justice. Where were these college kids support over the last ten years? Where was their patriotism when Bush started this path? It seems an excuse to party and drink more than anything. This is a historical moment of memoriam to reflect the lives of a shitton (technical term) of people and the glory of America, it was not about one mans death.
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My dad texted me this late last night while I was in the library, saying "Osama is dead." My first reaction was to think that he had spelled it wrong and meant to say "Obama" is dead, and then I realized who he meant.
It's best to quote Mark Twain: ""I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."
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Very well put, Fuse. I agree with everything you said. Thank you to those who are out there, serving our country and working to protect us and what we stand for. We will need them all now more than ever as attempts at retaliation are inevitable.
Bottom line, much like Fuse stated, this is about justice. It has been served. But it does not bring an end to anything.
And, that photo has already been deemed a fake. I believe the gov't announced it has no plans to release photos, which sparked a typical uprising from conspiracy theorists as to it all being another lie and way too convenient that they won't release pics and already dumped his body in the ocean. We'll see though. I for one think this is a special case where releasing the photos to the public may be justified.
EDIT: Some articles now cite sources saying they may be released. Hm
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http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/raid-got-bin-laden-was-culmination-years-work-sr-admin-official-s
Some time after Sept. 11, detainees held by the U.S. told interrogators about a man believed to work as a courier for bin Laden, senior administration officials said. The man was described by detainees as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and “one of the few Al Qaeda couriers trusted by bin laden.”
Initially, intelligence officials only had the man’s nickname, but they discovered his real name four years ago.
Two years ago, intelligence officials began to identify areas of Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated, and the great security precautions the two men took aroused U.S. suspicions.
Last August, intelligence officials tracked the men to their residence in Abbottabad, Pakistan, a relatively wealthy town 35 miles north of Islamabad where many retired military officers live.
Bin Laden was caught partially in thanks to information obtained from detainees interrogated at Guantanamo Bay. Food for thought for those that wanted to close it down.
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More proof that Jack Bauer and men that operate like him get results. Period.
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I am happy to see this thread and, frankly, happy to hear that this man is dead, I hope he suffered, badly, and knew just some of the fear that people watching loved one's felt as they saw the towers come crashing down. I am afraid I do not share Ana's Mark Twain view in this regard (although Twain did of course put it eloquently) - I hope and pray he never knows peace.
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Pics or it didn't happen.
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It's best to quote Mark Twain: ""I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."
I've wished quite a few men dead.... And then taken great pleasure at reading their obituaries.
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The last thing bin Laden saw:
(http://liquiware.net/broin/clint.jpg)
(Broin, not Clint)
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http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/raid-got-bin-laden-was-culmination-years-work-sr-admin-official-s
Some time after Sept. 11, detainees held by the U.S. told interrogators about a man believed to work as a courier for bin Laden, senior administration officials said. The man was described by detainees as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and “one of the few Al Qaeda couriers trusted by bin laden.”
Initially, intelligence officials only had the man’s nickname, but they discovered his real name four years ago.
Two years ago, intelligence officials began to identify areas of Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated, and the great security precautions the two men took aroused U.S. suspicions.
Last August, intelligence officials tracked the men to their residence in Abbottabad, Pakistan, a relatively wealthy town 35 miles north of Islamabad where many retired military officers live.
Bin Laden was caught partially in thanks to information obtained from detainees interrogated at Guantanamo Bay. Food for thought for those that wanted to close it down.
It should also be mentioned that the intel about the courier was obtained under the Clinton administration. The information obtained in Guantanamo was a confirmation of said person existing and started the hunt for that person.
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Although initially, I was so very happy that this man is dead; but it would have been much better to have bought him back to the US alive to deny him his martyr's death and let him die as an old man in a cell. Then he would know (with a few beatings from the guard) that his life was worthless.
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Although initially, I was so very happy that this man is dead; but it would have been much better to have bought him back to the US alive to deny him his martyr's death and let him die as an old man in a cell. Then he would know (with a few beatings from the guard) that his life was worthless.
True but the alternative would be that periodically you would hear word from him about his hate and you can just as easily make a case for more hate would ensue because they were holding him captured. Beating him would only solidify in his and others that the USA is just a disgraceful nation only interested in it's own prosperity and doesn't care about anyone else. That we turn around, wash this guy, bury him at sea and give him an actual funeral with Muslim prayers says a lot about the USA's character compared to how others would have done it.
This also may just be reporter spin but word is that he was shot in his room hidden away without a weapon. He spoke about going down a fighter and instead died a coward. With these details it's hard to spin this in favor of him or radicals.
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Although initially, I was so very happy that this man is dead; but it would have been much better to have bought him back to the US alive to deny him his martyr's death and let him die as an old man in a cell. Then he would know (with a few beatings from the guard) that his life was worthless.
That would have required a trial. Could you imagine the circus of a trial it would be? That would have been enormously more climactic for him and his followers. Can you imagine how drawn out that trial would be? bin Laden would be in the news every day, with soundbites of him talking about the evils of the United States and the West. No, he didn't need a trial.
The way that he died speaks more volumes about him than anything else. He didn't die a martyr's death. He died pathetically, using a woman as a human shield.
Fun article about the team that did this and the technology they "didn't" use. Broin has to be somewhere in this!
http://nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/the-secret-team-that-killed-bin-laden-20110502
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Can I change my Order name to SEAL Team 6? Or DevGru, that sounds more Star Warsy...
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Can I change my Order name to SEAL Team 6? Or DevGru, that sounds more Star Warsy...
So you want to be the United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group?
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Yes.
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I fully support my master's decision to change our order's title.
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I agree with Fuse... people seem to have been celebrating the revenge, not the justice. I feel like he should have been brought back and forced to stand trial in international court. THAT is the American way, not assasination.
That is, of course, if the story is true at all. The conspiracy theorists will have a field day with this. I felt a little disloyal when I caught myself thinking "what if the whole thing is faked to improve Obama's approval rating with the swing voters just in time for the election campaigns to be gearins up?"
Also, I believe I've made my views on the actual powers behind 9/11 known to ya'll. So I also caught myself thnking "What if they knew all along where he was, was in bed with him, and just decided to kill him off right now because of the campaign timing?"
Honestly I don't know what to think.
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I agree with Fuse... people seem to have been celebrating the revenge, not the justice. I feel like he should have been brought back and forced to stand trial in international court. THAT is the American way, not assassination.
That is, of course, if the story is true at all. The conspiracy theorists will have a field day with this. I felt a little disloyal when I caught myself thinking "what if the whole thing is faked to improve Obama's approval rating with the swing voters just in time for the election campaigns to be gearins up?"
Also, I believe I've made my views on the actual powers behind 9/11 known to ya'll. So I also caught myself thnking "What if they knew all along where he was, was in bed with him, and just decided to kill him off right now because of the campaign timing?"
Honestly I don't know what to think.
First a raid is not an assassination. Also its not revenge its retribution.
Second why would they lie about this? If they and someone found out they would be in deep shit.
I doubt Osma would ever get in bed with us since he attacked Americans 2 other times besides 9/11. They had only been following the courier for 6 months and it takes time to make sure its the right target. It also takes time to prepare for the raid. DevGru had to have a prop mansion built to drill on.
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It's war and unfortunately people have become to sensitized to it. But, when bad people die, the good guys celebrate.
Any silly notion that this or the prior events were a 'conspiracy' or 'setup' is awe-shockingly insulting to anyone who has been injured, lost family/friends, or lost their own life, both civilian or military. Such thoughts are on the same pedestal as believing the holocaust never happened.
And lets face it, there is so much bureaucracy (not to mention leaks) inside the government that they could fuck up a cup of coffee... let alone pull off a 'mass conspiracy' which has no benefits for either side.
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It's war and unfortunately people have become to sensitized to it. But, when bad people die, the good guys celebrate.
Any silly notion that this or the prior events were a 'conspiracy' or 'setup' is awe-shockingly insulting to anyone who has been injured, lost family/friends, or lost their own life, both civilian or military. Such thoughts are on the same pedestal as believing the holocaust never happened.
And lets face it, there is so much bureaucracy (not to mention leaks) inside the government that they could fuck up a cup of coffee... let alone pull off a 'mass conspiracy' which has no benefits for either side.
/agree*1000
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If anyone would have killed off osama for their own media love fest, it would have been bush. That kills the "we worked with him" theory.
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Although initially, I was so very happy that this man is dead; but it would have been much better to have bought him back to the US alive to deny him his martyr's death and let him die as an old man in a cell. Then he would know (with a few beatings from the guard) that his life was worthless.
Problem with holding him alive is that country is suddenly at great risk for terrorist ransoms. Let's be serious, even if we say we don't negotiate with terrorists that would not stop them for a second to try and secure his release. Much better dead. Also, burying him at sea was genius. It prevents a permanent grave site in which al quieda could "pilgrimage" to and such. I think it was handled well and obamas speech was good, even if you dislike him as a president. He didn't take undue credit, he stayed focused on how it was carried out and reminded everyone why we did it.
That being said, if I see one more copy/paste of the Facebook status update " just to clarify Obama did not kill osama bin laden, an American soldier did.. Blah blah blah" I am going to flip my sh*t. For the love of whatever you believe in. Do you honestly think that people are stupid enough tothink obama went over there with an ak47 and put a bullet in him? No. No one is that dumb. We know he authorized the strike and soldiers went in and did the job. For you to insult my intelligence by putting your obvious anti Obama statements on Facebook is literally going to drive me insane.
I know some of you are friends with me on Facebook an if you posted this already so be it. But seriously people. That's like your friend saying, I built a new house, and your response being, no you didn't. The contractor and his employees did. Really? Seriously?
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Lol at Heiro's rage.
Also I gotta say that I agree with Lits... I couldnt help it, and found myself thinking that they brought all this Bin Laden thing just to celebrate the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
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Why is it that the majority of conspiracy theorists are people without a clearance?
Read that however you want to.
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Why is it that the majority of conspiracy theorists are people without a clearance?
Read that however you want to.
Commies?
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Haha, Dag. I am by no means a conspiracy theorist nor do I think any aspect of this whole thing is a lie or anything of the sort. I disagree with them, but I can see why, with absolutely no proof it is very difficult for some to believe our government at their word, for many reasons. (No images, dumping the body in the sea asap, the reasons make sense but can seem too convenient at the same time). Argue it all you want, but I want the photos and raid videos released to the public.
-We deserve to see it after everything he did to us.
-Our tax dollars aided this effort to get him for decades.
-If it's too gruesome for you, don't look at it.
-If you think it will spur retaliation and don't think our enemies are already pissed off without the visual proof, you're crazy.
-I want assurance it is done, and hopefully it silences the nay-sayers, though I know for some if not most of them, nothing will ever be enough proof unless they were there themselves when it went down.
On another note, though I did not vote for him and question many of his actions in many areas, I have to say I very much respect Obama for pulling the trigger (figuratively Heiro, lol) on this raid. He showed balls I did not expect him to have and for that I commend him. This needed to be done and it went down under his watch. But, he chose this route so there would be proof of bin Laden's demise and again I think the public deserves that proof too.
All that being said, I would love Broin's thoughts on the whole thing. I doubt he'll give them to us, but his insight would be very interesting to me. Even if you choose to talk to me about it in private.
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To be honest, I am surprised by the amount of information already released, so who knows, they may release more images/footage due to momentum.
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To be honest, I am surprised by the amount of information already released, so who knows, they may release more images/footage due to momentum.
The CIA has all but said we will get a picture, whether it's of him after being shot or the one after they cleaned him up we don't know. They have also said we won't get the video of the operation taking place but the video of his funeral is still being debated.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42900991/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/
The headline is 'Obama decides not to release photos'. I don't blame him, he needs another 'ace in the hole' to play before the election because after all he already released his long birth form.
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Son of a bitch. Here comes the overflow of conspiracies...
no proof, details changing every interview, no body, etc etc
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They put osama in witness protection with Elvis.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42900991/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/
The headline is 'Obama decides not to release photos'. I don't blame him, he needs another 'ace in the hole' to play before the election because after all he already released his long birth form.
Yeah just found that out too. I really don't get why they are blocking just a shot of his dead head though. Holding them back for the election makes little sense because then all the GoP has to do is say that Obama lied when he said we wouldn't get them and it's not going to make much difference in swinging voters. Everyone is still going to remember this a year and a half from now but it wont be nearly as important as the economy or something else.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42900991/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/
The headline is 'Obama decides not to release photos'. I don't blame him, he needs another 'ace in the hole' to play before the election because after all he already released his long birth form.
Yeah just found that out too. I really don't get why they are blocking just a shot of his dead head though. Holding them back for the election makes little sense because then all the GoP has to do is say that Obama lied when he said we wouldn't get them and it's not going to make much difference in swinging voters. Everyone is still going to remember this a year and a half from now but it won't be nearly as important as the economy or something else.
Once you get to know Lithium better (and I hope you don't), you'll realize he was making another sarcastic smartass remark in an attempt to trap people into taking it seriously.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42900991/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/
The headline is 'Obama decides not to release photos'. I don't blame him, he needs another 'ace in the hole' to play before the election because after all he already released his long birth form.
Yeah just found that out too. I really don't get why they are blocking just a shot of his dead head though. Holding them back for the election makes little sense because then all the GoP has to do is say that Obama lied when he said we wouldn't get them and it's not going to make much difference in swinging voters. Everyone is still going to remember this a year and a half from now but it won't be nearly as important as the economy or something else.
Once you get to know Lithium better (and I hope you don't), you'll realize he was making another sarcastic smartass remark in an attempt to trap people into taking it seriously.
Well in all fairness to myself what Lithium suggested is something political analyst have considered as being the case. Most though are dismissing it and the conclusion seems to just be "we don't want to give the US that sort of image". Whatever that means.
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Once you get to know Lithium better (and I hope you don't), you'll realize he was making another sarcastic smartass remark in an attempt to trap people into taking it seriously.
He's a troll?
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So while playing through Cod4's campain I noticed an interesting coincidence. In the Shock and Awe mission a Navy Seal's team is sent in to capture Al-Asad and are the ones to discover the nuclear device in the compound. The name of the team. Seal Team Six.
Even weirder of a coincidence is that CoD4 takes place in 2011.
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ILLUMINATI ARE TELLING US THE FUTURE!
/conspiracy
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43024125/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/42879773
See, if they wanted him to come quietly, they should have just threatened to release an EMP pulse and wipe his porn collection.
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So while playing through Cod4's campain I noticed an interesting coincidence. In the Shock and Awe mission a Navy Seal's team is sent in to capture Al-Asad and are the ones to discover the nuclear device in the compound. The name of the team. Seal Team Six.
Even weirder of a coincidence is that CoD4 takes place in 2011.
Correction: You play as 1st Force Recon aka Marine Force Recon
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So while playing through Cod4's campain I noticed an interesting coincidence. In the Shock and Awe mission a Navy Seal's team is sent in to capture Al-Asad and are the ones to discover the nuclear device in the compound. The name of the team. Seal Team Six.
Even weirder of a coincidence is that CoD4 takes place in 2011.
Correction: You play as 1st Force Recon aka Marine Force Recon
Correct, but I was talking about a team that you hear about over the radio throughout the mission not who you play as. Oh and about the Illuminati, fun fact, they were founded in 1776 on May 1st. Same day Hitler and OBL were proclaimed dead.
Gotta love coincidence :)