The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Broin on March 01, 2011, 06:42:25 pm
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Alright I've noticed something over the past few months that I'm not to pleased with. Examples have popped up in several different games be it Battlefield or Champions or what have you, but the clearest example is what I have seen happen in League of Legend games that I've played with some of you.
And this has happened with both new members and some of our older members.
When you think the game has turned, when you think you have lost the advantage, when you think that you are falling behind, when you think you can't catch up.... So many of you choose to surrender. To give up. To quit.
I'm going to tell everyone this right now. There is not quit in FA. There is no give up. There is no surrender. It pisses me off to see it, and not only do I not like it. I won't accept it.
The game style in this faction is not one of when things get hard you give up. The game style is when things get hard and you think you're getting spanked then you grab a fucking belt pull your pants up from around your ankles and strap it on.
Those who fall the furthest down, who look to be gonners, but who come back and return from the brink to succeed are the ones who will be remembered. They will be the ones that stories are told about. They will be the ones who are feared. The ones that make others say "Oh Shit FA is here."
I can't count the number of times when it was just me and T and we took on and took out teams of 6 and 7 and 8. Two against the odds, and more often than not we'd come out on top. I can't count the number of times when there was a group of 6-10 FA going up against 20 plus REDS and coming out on top.
There is not quit in FA, and there damn sure ain't no quit in my Order. If you are in the Emeritus you damn well better get ready to stay and fight till the bitter end. I pride myself on staying till the last of making sure others get out. Namely the boss and his flag ship. I don't care what your class is, healer / DPS / crowd control. When the shit hits the fan your standing ground and making sure others get out or that we all make it through. PERIOD.
So for those who are new read this well and mark it well, because when the time comes we are going to work as a unit and take on the odds. And there will be odds against us and you will get pissed about them, and you'll want to lash out sometimes. But in FA we don't do that we suck it up and push through.
For those who have been here awhile. Wake up and remember what it is we do.
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This is an aspect of our playstyle that I think is important for new members to realize and old members to remember.
Originally, before MxO was even out, FA was known for the challenge and our cryptic talk and roleplay. But THIS is how we really got our name in PvP. We traveled as a pack and had a "no man left behind" mentality. If we found a group of enemies, we were attacking, even if we were outnumbered. Even if we initially got defeated, we came right back and would pick people off or play strategically. Our PvP sessions would last for hours until the other side would start to fade.
It wasn't just MxO. In our brief time in Darkfall, we fought tooth and nail to get a Hamlet (a smaller city). We were constantly ganked at that hamlet (our numbers were very low compared to the other guilds that held territory) and yet we never joined an alliance for protection. We never sold off our hamlet. We fought tooth and nail for that piece of shit even when we really got no returns from it.
I remember the first siege waged against our hamlet. We had absolutely no chance against the enemy, which was comprised of a large alliance of several guilds coming to roll us over. At the last minute I got a message from an enemy of that alliance. "If you can hold them until we get there, we'll help you fend them off". We didn't ask for the help, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So there we were, running around fighting these guys who were waaaay higher level and way higher geared than us. We maybe had 10% health left on our hamlet when the calvary arrived and we ended up keeping the hamlet for another couple of weeks. I could have just said "Don't bother coming, dude. We're screwed".
Our resilience is something we're known for. In MxO it made us the greatest PvP threat of the game. In Darkfall it got us the reputation of the scrappy underdogs who, despite being practically the ONLY GUILD with territory who hadn't sold out to an alliance, still had possession of a city.
In SWTOR we probably won't be the biggest guild. And we'll have enemies who will have us in numbers. But even if we're nothing more than a fly in their face, we're going to be that really annoying fly that you can never seem to get rid of.
Broin is right in that you should begin to get used to that mentality now, even while playing other games. Bad habits die hard!
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I certainly can't speak for the others, but as far as League of Legends goes I literally never looked at it this way.
I mean, in other games I hold this same "never give up" mentality, but in LoL it always seemed to me a courtesy to the other team when overwhelmed by superior opponents. I always viewed LoL as less a battle and more a sport, where some have the skunk rule where the game is over when one team has a certain massive lead on the other.
I too remember fighting in that siege in Darkfall; I lost nearly everything I owned in that battle, charging over and over again into the mass of enemies, each one of which could whoop me in a 1v1 fight. Even though we got our asses kicked, I had tons of fun and we earned the respect of the foremost "mercenary" clan in the game (they were the ones who came to our rescue). Out of everything in Darkfall, I remember that siege most clearly.
You're right Broin, I (and the rest of us) should view each and every League of Legends match, and every other game we play, as a pitched battle with our team representing the Furious Angels.
From now on, I'll be clicking "No" when the inevitable surrender vote comes up in LoL, and I urge you all to do the same.
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I apologize for not understanding. Since I am new I didn't have as good idea on how we as a group view defeat versus perseverance. From now on I will shape up and not run away from defeat.
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I didn't resign when Tbone was beating the crap out of me on Words with Friends with 400+ points ;)
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While I kind of expected this from FA, it is really refreshing to hear that is what is expected.
I'm sure Wind and Ex can think up a few examples of people who quit when the odds were against them (usually in a fit of rage too).
At the end of the day, I like to be the thorn in their side that means they can't rest and constantly have to keep and eye out until the end truly has arrived.
They won't be beating me with pure strength in numbers.
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It's all about resilience.
During our glory days in MxO, we definitely had the numbers over a lot of other factions. But as people left the game, and subsequently left FA, it was easy to get discouraged when we would get outnumbered 3-to-1. Sometimes more than that. I remember one time in particular, 7 FA went up against 20+ reds and came out on top. It wasn't easy, but it felt damn good when we finally looked around and said "Where'd they all go?"
But we never left the battlefield until we owned it. Sometimes it was quick (FA Pain Train!), sometimes a fight could go on for two or three hours. But we did our job and we did it well against the odds. While we received our share of hatred and petty trashtalk from a few, there were many more who regarded us as respected rivals.
Quitting only makes the win that much sweeter for the victor.
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/slowcap
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I have to agree with Broin completely. Quitting just sweetens the win for the victor, trust me on this making people rage quit feels pretty darn good.
I can remember times in DAOC & WAR that I randomly grouped with people in pvp and these people would run away once our numbers got thin. Unlike these cowards I would stay and hold the objective to get the meager amount of points I could for my team until I was overwhelmed. Now nine times out of ten I would die due to the enemy having superior numbers(1 vs. 14+), but I knew that I could at least take some of them with me. This would give my team the points they needed to stay in the fight or enough time to regroup.
What is death in a video game? A stat? A short walk back to combat? A small amount of in-game currency? Clicking the respawn button? The truth is their is no death in video games, when all you have to do is click a button, shell out some coins, or wait to be revived. Now yes I know their is "death", but why are people so afraid of it when its not permanent?
I will gladly stand on the front lines with FA whether we win or get our asses handed to us on a silver platter, though I seriously doubt the latter. Truth is I would rather die trying rather than not have tried at all, so I will be there until the fighting done. This is a serious gut check for some of our members it seems. For them I will say this: Either man up or get left behind!
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I would also like to add that what usually gets us through "hopeless" situations is encouragement, leadership and overall positive team building. This means not feeding off the frustration of others, and when you are feeling like all hope is lost, explain a problem you're having or ask for help/directions on what to do, chances are someone else can either give you a useful pointer or you point out something they weren't aware of before (like a tank on the right side that keeps killing you). Then you and the rest of the team can begin to work on that problem (like tracing the tank and/or a coordinated uav/rpg strike).
I will point out that LoL can be a bad example to draw from for two reasons.
1. Going into a game without a full premade team means you'll have to be relying on someone who may or may not communicate with you and may or may not be a team player.
2. If your group's objective is IP farming, a fantastic comeback takes longer than two surrenders. Again, just know what your goals are as a group.
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i've been guilty of "yelling" at people to "GTFO of my Battleground" when they say shit like "just let them win."
glad to see i joined the right crew.
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I've been guilty of "yelling" at people to "GTFO of my Battleground" when they say shit like "just let them win."
glad to see I joined the right crew.
Its true, he forgets they can't hear him thru teamspeak, can be very humorous at times.
on a serious note, share the same sentiment as Eeth, but this is mostly what I've expected from your MxO rep.
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Ok... im gonna go ahead and think that as "quit" you mean either a) stop pvping or b) log out... As the PvP Hard Core Whores FA have the reputation as from MxO, I will take it that you guys actually rethink your strategy mid-battle and kite when needed... Personally I usually play ranged classes so I sure as hell kite and pwn... Lets take my old days at DAoC for example... I played scout and sorc... now take in mind that Archers and Casters cant shoot/cast when taking melee dmg as it interupts them, so im sure as hell kited melees because im not gonna stand there doing nothing while getting faceraped...
Now for SWTOR im gonna be playing Jedi Guardian so I wont be having those problems but what I expect is that if the situation gets out of control, we kite, maybe make a run for it, get ready to go at it again, go after them... hopefully pick up the ones that stray and gank the others... I really dont like dying and giving the enemy free points, but im not really the first one to run. Either we all run, or we die killing the ones we can.
TL;DR?
I dont think of running away as quitting, I call it strategy.
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hey.. old guys.. remember in Shirikumo when we got challenged to hold the Dojo against what must have been at least 30 reds if not more.. I think we only had like 12-15 guys.. we held that damn dojo for an hour.. ALL the reds gave up.. they said.. ok.. let us hold it and you try to take it over.. and we did.. didnt even take more than 10 minutes to take that damn dojo from them.. I wish someone had the screenshots still..
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Tonight in an epic game of LoL we showed what tenacity can bring to the table.
Never give up, never surrender!
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hey.. old guys.. remember in Shirikumo when we got challenged to hold the Dojo against what must have been at least 30 reds if not more.. I think we only had like 12-15 guys.. we held that damn dojo for an hour.. ALL the reds gave up.. they said.. ok.. let us hold it and you try to take it over.. and we did.. didn't even take more than 10 minutes to take that damn dojo from them.. I wish someone had the screenshots still..
I remember that. We took the dojo, gave it back, and took it again. All while outnumbered.
Fuckin' great times.
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/bump
Not because I've noticed this happening too much, but it's a good read for our newer members and a good reminder for our older members, especially in Warzones. Even if you're past the point of no return, you give them hell before they win and make them work like crazy for that win and show that it was FA that tried their hardest. And, you do all of this with dignity.
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Even if you're past the point of no return, you give them hell before they win...
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Mifune
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I think I heard one instance last night of people not wanting to go to a planet to help combat IMPs because they were lower level and not level 50. (Specifically level 40 something). I've heard some chatter on TS "Yeah I'm too low level, I'll die".
It's not about only participating if you know you can win. It's about us all showing up regardless. I think Tbone's perspective was "If they're busy killing you, they're distracted and not attacking me so I can kill them".
It's not only that but it's also about us participating in group events. Even if we lose. We need more of our new people to participate in these things to learn how FA works strategically. Hell, I need the exposure, I haven't PvP'd with FA in like forever.
We should all leave our egos at the door, fall in and let's get some group experience in. Even if the experience is dying. A lot.
We'll get better.
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Thank you Broin and Tbone, I needed to hear that. Even though I am away from home on work, it is positive reassurance for me on the reason why I joined this family.
Lack of determination, passion and the fight to move forward will destroy a good thing and I don't see that with the majority. Some will quit, some will fade away because they do not possess what it takes to really be a Furious Angel.
I am with you guys all the way, Never give up, Never Surrender!
On a lighter note, my comment above brought me to this video, had to share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-VMTIPwk74
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I think I heard one instance last night of people not wanting to go to a planet to help combat IMPs because they were lower level and not level 50. (Specifically level 40 something). I've heard some chatter on TS "Yeah I'm too low level, I'll die".
It's not about only participating if you know you can win. It's about us all showing up regardless. I think Tbone's perspective was "If they're busy killing you, they're distracted and not attacking me so I can kill them".
It's not only that but it's also about us participating in group events. Even if we lose. We need more of our new people to participate in these things to learn how FA works strategically. Hell, I need the exposure, I haven't PvP'd with FA in like forever.
We should all leave our egos at the door, fall in and let's get some group experience in. Even if the experience is dying. A lot.
We'll get better.
Amen... Can't even count the times in MXO I charged head first into battle knowing I had no chance but as I was dying I'd almost always have the satisfaction of watching an FA member come out of nowhere to completely obliterate my opponent... and ultimately retreat because our determination and numbers began to overwhelm them.
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Even if you're past the point of no return, you give them hell before they win...
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Mifune
Manic, thanks for this. I needed it today. I joined a Hutball game and we were down 0-5 and the other team was camped.. on our goal line with the ball for over 5 minutes. I repeatedly threw myself into the fray (and died a lot) for remaining time.
I kept thinking.. "If I'm going to lose, I'm going to give them hell before I do.." Classic Mifune moment.
I'm not sure I proved anything out there other than I was the most stubborn player on the field but it sure was fun.
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Even if you're past the point of no return, you give them hell before they win...
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Mifune
Manic, thanks for this. I needed it today. I joined a Hutball game and we were down 0-5 and the other team was camped.. on our goal line with the ball for over 5 minutes. I repeatedly threw myself into the fray (and died a lot) for remaining time.
I kept thinking.. "If I'm going to lose, I'm going to give them hell before I do.." Classic Mifune moment.
I'm not sure I proved anything out there other than I was the most stubborn player on the field but it sure was fun.
You proved you were FA. Me, Lan'obi (Trushott) and Longboard really had a similar couple of trials.
The first warzone was a Voidstar. We were defending first, and unfortunately the enemy managed to get a breakaway going, getting to the final set of doors before the reactor core with 4 minutes to spare. But we didn't pack it in or just farm for kills, we kept to the doors , rushing back and forth as needed like madmen. And wouldn't you know it, we held those doors right until the end. The Sith never broke through. Then on our attack, we got a break away of our own, and ended up getting through and winning the match.
Then, we had an Alderaan where we capped west, but the Sith capped East and center. They did a good job of defending for five minutes, until they had a huge lead on us. Then, when a pugger managed to ninja east out from under them, we took advantage of their distraction to take center. We ended up three capping them for the rest of the match.
Win or lose, not giving up is definitely the FA way.
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Indeed... I'm not hitting 40 yet, but I know that I can tip the balance even so. So I die, respawn die... at least I participate, and have some fun with my team. I'm not going to avoid a fight just because I may lose. I wouldn't be able to get missions done on Tatooine if I thought I might lose to Sith (and I have lost to Sith). Pick myself up and get on. I prefer NOT to give them a PVP tally, but hey, I guess they prefer not to give one to me either.
Side note: I didn't participate (if this is the one I was thinking of) because I was heading off... but I think my point still stands!
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WZs have been a rough subject for me this week. The repetitiveness and lack of good pugs on our side with the unbelievable power of chain stuns have caused me to let out more than a few expletives and negative thoughts on teamspeak - for that I apologize.
The goal is to have fun, and while I dont mind losing sometimes, I dont have fun walking facefirst into a group only to be zapped, despite a full resolvebar or resilience, and die seconds later. It's made me attempt to rethink PvP playstyles and coordination, which is a good thing. But it's also made be a bit bitter to the imbalance.
My valor and cashflow has taken a huge hit in the last 2 weeks due to unsuccessful WZs and getting 5 items from 40+ bags, which only 3 I use. Thanks to those who come to help, and also for bumping this thread. It may nto fix the problems, but it certainly makes me rethink how I respond to them.
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Even if you're past the point of no return, you give them hell before they win...
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Mifune
Manic, thanks for this. I needed it today. I joined a Hutball game and we were down 0-5 and the other team was camped.. on our goal line with the ball for over 5 minutes. I repeatedly threw myself into the fray (and died a lot) for remaining time.
I kept thinking.. "If I'm going to lose, I'm going to give them hell before I do.." Classic Mifune moment.
I'm not sure I proved anything out there other than I was the most stubborn player on the field but it sure was fun.
You proved you were FA. Me, Lan'obi (Trushott) and Longboard really had a similar couple of trials.
The first warzone was a Voidstar. We were defending first, and unfortunately the enemy managed to get a breakaway going, getting to the final set of doors before the reactor core with 4 minutes to spare. But we didn't pack it in or just farm for kills, we kept to the doors , rushing back and forth as needed like madmen. And wouldn't you know it, we held those doors right until the end. The Sith never broke through. Then on our attack, we got a break away of our own, and ended up getting through and winning the match.
Then, we had an Alderaan where we capped west, but the Sith capped East and center. They did a good job of defending for five minutes, until they had a huge lead on us. Then, when a pugger managed to ninja east out from under them, we took advantage of their distraction to take center. We ended up three capping them for the rest of the match.
Win or lose, not giving up is definitely the FA way.
that alderaan match may have been the best come form behind mircle win of tactics greater than gear ive seen .... they were all better geared than us but we kept them in small groups and singles the whole match and snagged it out from under them at the last minute ... i wish i had a FRAPS of that would have been great
at one point it was 400 something to 200 something
and if i remember right it was like 250 to 105 when we three capped :)
IT AINT OVER TIL ITS OVER :)