FA Discussion => Non-VR Games => Topic started by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 04:18:39 pm
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 04:18:39 pm
FINAL Version
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on August 20, 2010, 04:30:52 pm
Love the video in general and the voiceover words. Not liking the voice at all, though. Way too over the top dramatic and too drawn out on some words.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Adad on August 20, 2010, 04:40:04 pm
I think it's done pretty well.
That being said, I don't like it. Voice is cheesey. I don't like the idea of in-game footage that in no way actually represents us. I don't like the idea in general of it being more like a game/movie trailer than a message to the potential from us... I know it will take a long time (but the challenge will too still) but I prefer the idea of Loki's original art if he's willing to sink some real time into it.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 04:43:48 pm
People seem to not like the voice over. I was going for a movie trailer feel, with the deep announcer voice. Cheesy? Yes. But also epic. I dunno, I usually hate my voice, but I like the announcer voice in this one.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 04:51:24 pm
Quote from: "Adad"
I prefer the idea of Loki's original art if he's willing to sink some real time into it.
I'm really backtracking on that idea. After putting together a demo myself and seeing how bad it is, I realized how hard it is to make still images interesting in video. The holo timeline is using a method of separating the foreground and background to create depth and movement. The process is extremely tedious, and I think, even if we figured out how to mimic the effect, the end result would be far less quality than their holovids and even the video I've put together using game footage.
I understand the footage is something everyone has seen before and doesn't quite capture our vibe. However that's really the only footage I had to work with and will have to work with for at least a few months.
Remember this video comes after they've completed the challenge, so it isn't standing alone. I'll try a different version with just my regular voice later tonight when I get off work.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Anamodiel on August 20, 2010, 07:43:18 pm
When I was going through most of the recruitment threads on the SWTOR forums, I found that a lot of them had videos that used much of the same footage that you're using and used many of the same platitudes that we're using and a voice-over telling you about the clan. None of them made me want to join their clan; on the contrary, I was turned off by them because I saw that as a very poor recruitment tool.
We need to set ourselves apart from the crowd, and a video like this doesn't do that. I know that we have the Challenge to back it up, but everything we create should be of a high enough quality that it could stand on its own if it had to. The video at the beginning of the www.thefuriousangels.com could easily stand on it's own, even though it has the website in the background to back it up. Everything we make breaks the mold; this movie follows the mold and, I believe, is the type of recruitment tool that we shouldn't emulate.
Furthermore, you're correct in pointing out that the video is the last step before the recruitment process; that will be the last impression that they have of us before they decide whether to apply to join our clan. Sure, we have an excellent Challenge, but if our finale isn't something striking, it will have fallen flat.
If Loki can bring some cool looking art to the table, achieving the Holonet effect wouldn't be very hard at all. I'm positive that either Adad or Enoch, along Tbone as the script-writer, should be able to create a stellar production that leaves a final, lasting impression that "seals the deal" for any applicant who may have been the least hesitant.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 08:07:32 pm
Seems I'm out outvoted. I'll scrap the footage project then. Using the still images put me to sleep, and I felt a more action-oriented video would build the whole thing to a climax rather than flatline after an already subdued part of the challenge.
To be honest, I have not seen any videos that use game footage - only CGI stuff, which is why I went with the footage I did. I would love to see some of the videos you are refering to.
If we are going to try the homemade images route, we are going to need around 25-30 unique images, with background separate than the foreground and at least half of those containing a frame to be animated to. I'd still like to try and maintain the more action-driven vibe for now with the new script. The old one just pit me to sleep.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 20, 2010, 11:40:20 pm
Ok, I went ahead and re-recorded the voiceover and adjusted volume levels of the sound fx. New feedback please.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on August 21, 2010, 12:55:07 am
Maybe I don't remember the first one, but I think that's worse. IMO, It still seems too slow and "....yes...this...is...a...script..." robot-like.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: NoCry on August 21, 2010, 01:30:52 am
Personally I quite like it. It might be because I am on an iPhone but is the resolution ok? It was a little blocky for me.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 21, 2010, 02:28:35 am
*throws video out window*
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 22, 2010, 12:41:43 am
Updated again with more balance in sound.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Lits on August 22, 2010, 03:47:44 am
just a suggestion: instead of outwardly naming the classes, perhaps you could make it a little more lyric and immersive:
ie - instead of "smugglers" maybe "former dregs of society" or "former outlaws"
etc...
Just to keep it from being 1-dimensional gametalk and lean more towards really biting into the story.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Enoch on August 22, 2010, 11:50:42 am
Ooooh, I really like Lits idea. Also, pace yourself a little bit Tbone. Are you narrating to the video or editing the video to your voiceover? I think the latter might help to make sure your speaking pacing is less forced.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 22, 2010, 12:17:11 pm
I did the latter with a different VO, but no one liked the "movie announcer", so I re-recorded it with my natural voice but had to keep the same pace since the entire video had already been edited for the other VO.
I really don't think we are going to get anything good until we can film our own content. Until then it is just awkwardly trying to fit footage into a theme.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 23, 2010, 01:24:11 pm
Quote from: "Tbone"
I really don't think we are going to get anything good until we can film our own content. Until then it is just awkwardly trying to fit footage into a theme.
This.
If we want to stand out, we shouldn't use the stock footage that everyone else is using. Like our first MxO video, we should do something that is unique to us. I don't think it would be detrimental to the challenge if we waited until some of us got into beta so we could film our own stuff.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 23, 2010, 04:13:52 pm
I split the thread up a bit. Here's the missing bits pertaining to this discussion:
Likwidtek
I don't like the idea of just static images unless they are edited and given motion and effects expertly. I feel that Broin and Adad are really good at this and with enough filtering and their own special sauce can make anything their own. Personally I think using in game footage looks a little weak. I feel that using static images would be as well.
I think that we could take video elements from the CGI trailers, borrow and give credit to some nice live action stuff but edit it down slow and dramatic so that it is givin it's own FA style.
I REALLY like the video in the intro flash thingy on thesuriousangels.com That's the exact style I think we should stick with. Very teaserish, very dramatic, very inspiring. I think we can take any footage and give it that feel.
Tbone
One problem is that EVERYBODY uses the same CGI trailer footage. Almost every guild video I've seen uses it, ourselves included. While our teaserish splash page works well for what it is supposed to be, the holovid is supposed to be the veil being lifted after going through the entire challenge, so it has to give more than that, though I do like the idea of it being flashes of images.
Tbone
Quote from: "Manicvelocity"
I don't think it would be detrimental to the challenge if we waited until some of us got into beta so we could film our own stuff.
I have to disagree. With a Spring release, we shouldn't expect the NDA to be lifted until March at the earliest, even if some of us managed to get an early invite. That's 7 months from now, and an extremely unreasonable amount of time to wait before starting to recruit.
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 23, 2010, 07:06:02 pm
Quote from: "Tbone"
Quote from: "Manicvelocity"
I don't think it would be detrimental to the challenge if we waited until some of us got into beta so we could film our own stuff.
I have to disagree. With a Spring release, we shouldn't expect the NDA to be lifted until March at the earliest, even if some of us managed to get an early invite. That's 7 months from now, and an extremely unreasonable amount of time to wait before starting to recruit.
And the alternative is that we send the potential recruit through a unique and elaborate challenge... to reveal video footage they've been watching for the past year?
If the holovid is necessary as part of the challenge, then I think we should hold it up to the standard of quality with which we regard the rest of the challenge. Should we use the same footage that every other faction is using for their recruitment, or should we use Furious Angels footage for Furious Angels recruitment?
Title: Re: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 23, 2010, 07:31:09 pm
Waiting until we get in game is not an option. It just isn't on the table. If we wait until the game comes out, our recruitment will be too little, too late, and we won't have made enough of a name for ourselves to make any sort of impact on anything.
I understand that using pre-filmed game footage isn't a very good option. I also understand that using CGI footage isn't a very good option. I also understand that using movie footage and the Clone Wars cartoon footage aren't very good options. I understand that ripping from the holovid timeline isn't original. I know that creating our own images is time-consuming and risky.
But those are the only options I can think of, and of them we're going to have to get creative with and make work. The only other option I've thought about recently is doing a live action transmission from Tbone, but I can't even start to count the different ways that can be crappy.
I think if we go the route of showing videos and images on the screen behind the hologram, it'll make whatever we do more interesting and original just from the way it is being presented.
Right now we're going the direction of self-made holovid-esque images, but I haven't seen anything come of that since the sketch Loki showed us a few days ago. It can't go so slow that we only get a sketch done a week.
I'm open to all sorts of options EXCEPT for giving up and waiting for the game to come out :)
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Broin on August 23, 2010, 07:48:33 pm
I honestly don't think we can wait in any sort of fashion... I personally think we are behind the curb in recruitment and waiting would put is behind the eightball.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 01:15:02 am
Ok, another test. Back to the holovid technique, this time using actually holovid footage. This is just a test. I'll probably re-record the audio (I want to add something about the uneasy peace), maybe switch out music, add SFX, fix the crappy transitions, etc. Just curious as to if this is less boring than the still images I used before.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: NoCry on August 24, 2010, 02:11:34 am
Again. This method has a lot of potential. As you say; the audio needs work still.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Ragnarok on August 24, 2010, 04:01:14 am
I like it a lot though I think the "This is Tbone" part may need to be changed, the rest is good,but the beginning just doesn't seem to fit.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Subb on August 24, 2010, 04:28:05 am
That's much better than the video in my opinion. If Loki did stuff like that and give it to someone who could to minimalist animations then it'd rock. But, if not; it's still pretty good!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Anamodiel on August 24, 2010, 08:15:53 am
I LIKE IT!!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 24, 2010, 11:52:45 am
I like it. The opening could use a little work. "This is Tbone" doesn't quite seem to fit.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: likwidtek on August 24, 2010, 12:34:04 pm
I like it. I really think we need have some after effects pros dazzle up the drama and transitions just like in the intro. Better quality audio and we have something very nice!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 12:52:39 pm
What's off about the "This is Tbone" part? The audio doesn't sound right? Or the video? Does it just need to be re-recorded? Or rewritten?
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 02:04:09 pm
New version:
-Re-recorded voice over -Added part about the Republic crippled -Cleaned up transitions
This is working out pretty well for looking like a basic "holovid".
Update: While not reflected in this version, I've fixed the fact that you can hear the voice over file turn on and off.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: likwidtek on August 24, 2010, 02:37:10 pm
You said "the furious angels is a group of.." @0:15 should be the furious angels ARE
Aside from that man, your voice acting is TOP NOTCH! Very well done. The audio sounds pretty good too.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 02:50:38 pm
I think I had this debate with Lithium as well. The grammatically correct way is to say "the furious angels is a group"
"The Boy Scouts of America is an organization dedicated..." "The class is going on a field trip" "Starbucks is a chain"
It is a singular group or organization, even if the name implies plurality. If I had said "the furious angels are several groups", then "are" would be correct.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Subb on August 24, 2010, 03:02:08 pm
Much, much better - I like. The only gripe I have with the Tbone intro is that it's not very Star Warsy but what the heck. It's a pseudonym, after all :)
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: likwidtek on August 24, 2010, 04:01:55 pm
Well if you say it "The Furious Angels are a group of..." it can't be argued that it's wrong because no matter what it's right. If you use IS you could argue that it's right but more people will snap and say it's wrong. Just saying if you use "are" people won't try and correct you.
My opinion at least. I'm no English major.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 04:45:24 pm
"The Furious Angels are a group" sounds wrong to me. If it were "The Furious Angels are really cool", you could get away with it, because you could be using just the "angels" plural rather than the organization name. But if you say "The Furious Angels are an organization", it doesn't work. Try reading it like "One organization are the Furious Angels."
Yeah, I know Subb...I thought about changing my name, but too many people associate me with the name Tbone now. After over 6 years, it'd be weird to change it.
By the way, I'm posting the other holovid videos in the storyboard thread.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on August 24, 2010, 05:41:52 pm
I disagree... put a small pause after angels and it sounds fine.
Take any sports team and it sounds fine. "The Cubs are an organization that just can't win" If you need it to sound better, put in an adjective. "The Furious Angels are an elite group who..." "The Cubs are a shitty organization who suck"
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 24, 2010, 06:19:28 pm
Listening to it again, it's a very complex sentence.
"The Furious Angels is a group (of force-sensitive warriors who have always....dark)"
but it could also read
"The Furious Angels is a group (of force-sensitive warriors) who have always...dark)"
If read the second way, it should either be "The furious angels are a group who have" or "The furious angels is a group that has".
I'll see if I can't sneak the "are" in, since the parenthetical "warriors" would infer more plurality and trying to force the singular, while technically more correct, would probably sound even worse. I just need to make sure it is consistent.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Ghisteslwchlohm on August 25, 2010, 01:18:36 am
I think you guys are talking about two separate things. Tbone seems to be talking about The Furious Angels as a singular entity while you other guys are talking about us as individuals inside of a group. So while 'the cubs are a group of individuals,' 'target is a store.'
Fuse and Likwidtek say 'Dole bananas are a group of force sensitive jedi' Tbone says 'Dole is a group of force sensitive jedi'
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on August 25, 2010, 01:20:27 am
yep. That's why you use "are" instead of "is".
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Lithium on August 25, 2010, 01:53:14 am
I actually was convinced a while back on this one:
Quote
Lithium: who the furious angels was? you mean were? Tbone: furious angels as a name is singular Tbone: the class is going on a field trip Lithium: furious angels is a group of people Tbone: yeah, exactly Lithium: so it's not a single person thus not signular Tbone: a class is a group of students Tbone: you didn't say "the furious angels are a group of people." You said "the furious angels is a group of people" Lithium: I say the first one furious angels is a group of people Lithium: yeah I suck at typing I meant are Tbone: LOL Tbone: HAHAHAHA Tbone: pwned Lithium: What I'd say in real life is different from when I type things. Tbone: I go back and forth but saying "furious angels is" is acceptable Tbone: Just like "the class is going on a field trip" you wouldn't say "the class are going on a field trip" Lithium: I guess if its a single entity, like a business Tbone: basic english...if you are talking about a single group of multiple things, you use the singular Lithium: okay Lithium: I'd just say, the students are going on a feild trip Lithium: angels is not sigular though. Lithium: so that rule fails here Tbone: "the furious angels" is the name of a single group Tbone: like a business name Lithium: a business would be named The Furious Angel Tbone: what? Tbone: you can name a business "the furious angels" Tbone: Hooters Tbone: it's not Hooter Lithium: right it's not signular Tbone: but you don't say "hooters are a good restaurant" Tbone: you say "hooters is a good restaurant" Lithium: Nobody knew who Hooters was, or Nobody knew who Hooters were.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 25, 2010, 12:00:30 pm
It's a question of what you're referring to. Are you referring to the Angels themselves (us as a whole), or are you referring to the organization itself?
"The Furious Angels" IS the name of our group, but The Furious Angels ARE a group of gamers.
Yes, we are a single group, but our name denotes plurality.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: ArchNemesis on August 25, 2010, 12:20:44 pm
Quote from: "ManicVelocity"
It's a question of what you're referring to. Are you referring to the Angels themselves (us as a whole), or are you referring to the organization itself?
"The Furious Angels" IS the name of our group, but The Furious Angels ARE a group of gamers.
Yes, we are a single group, but our name denotes plurality.
Exactly this. It's all in the context of how you're referring to The FA.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 25, 2010, 12:37:29 pm
I'm referring to it as you would be referring to FA. Let's say you said "I got an FA meeting in an hour" and someone was like "what is FA?"
You would say "Oh, FA is this group of gamers I'm in. FA is the faction."
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 25, 2010, 01:02:44 pm
In other news: The entirety of American-English is bullshit.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: NoCry on August 25, 2010, 01:04:23 pm
Why not lose your name at this stage. Just say "I am the leader of the furious angels"
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Subb on August 25, 2010, 01:41:25 pm
Quote from: "ManicVelocity"
American-English is bullshit.
/Thread.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on August 25, 2010, 03:02:01 pm
Quote from: "NoCry"
Why not lose your name at this stage. Just say "I am the leader of the furious angels"
Because when I say my name is when all the Tbone fangirls squeal with delight!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Adad on August 25, 2010, 03:34:21 pm
The Furious Angels is or are a group of people too concerned with grammar.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Ghisteslwchlohm on August 25, 2010, 03:46:25 pm
Quote from: "ManicVelocity"
In other news: The entirety of American-English is bullshit.
You mean, The entirety of American-English are bullshit!
Haha I jest, please take no offense.
But I think we could find a way around the grammar problems by just rearranging the structure of the words and completely avoid this problem altogether.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: LAZARUS on August 25, 2010, 05:44:29 pm
It's not a problem to begin with. Isn't there further pressing matters than grammar?
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 25, 2010, 05:58:21 pm
Quote from: "LAZARUS"
It's not a problem to begin with. Isn't there further pressing matters than grammar?
Doesn't you mean "aren't there further"....... ooooooooh ho ho HO!
(http://imgur.com/a15vn.jpg)
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: LAZARUS on August 26, 2010, 02:17:09 am
Well played.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on September 14, 2010, 03:58:31 pm
Ok, I'm hoping this is the final or very close to final version of the Holovid. Re-recorded the audio with my new mic:
Edit: Not reflected in this upload - fixed the small click heard at the end.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Ragnarok on September 14, 2010, 09:14:45 pm
I have to say that I like it a lot, especially the tone of your voice.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: LAZARUS on September 14, 2010, 10:28:04 pm
Damned near perfect, T. I absolutely love it, and the audio quality and the music is completely spot on. Great job.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Erathaol on September 15, 2010, 11:54:15 am
I, too, really enjoy this final version of the holovid. Excellent work, boss!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on September 15, 2010, 11:58:07 am
Thanks guys. 15th time's the charm!
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on September 15, 2010, 01:23:31 pm
Much better. Hate "This is TBone" and "the Furious Angels IS" still rubs me the wrong way. Otherwise, not bad.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Saint on September 15, 2010, 02:49:40 pm
Im not a fan of "This is TBONE!" but other than that, very nice..
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on September 15, 2010, 03:07:52 pm
Like Star Wars doesn't have weird names. "This is Jar Jar, leader of annoying side characters". Vader, Revan, Chewbacca, Jabba, Boba, Han, Yoda...I think Tbone fits right in! Hell, the oddball is plain ol "Luke".
Would it be better if I said "Commander Tbone". "This is Commander Tbone, and the Furious Angels is my favorite guild in the galaxy!".
Maybe I should just say "This is YOUR NEW MASTER!". Then we trap them in a force field! Gwahaha! Must...resist...dark side...
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Saint on September 15, 2010, 04:42:08 pm
or...how about whos your daddy? nah for me it was more the tone or voice inflection seemed off to me.. like you were maybe trying to hard to sound like MR. T from the A-Team :)
ps. ok i listened to it again later and either its a different version or im getting used to it. I may have been over harsh. Its not bad
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Fuse on September 15, 2010, 04:42:53 pm
For me it has less to do with the name itself. For me it just doesn't feel like it fits, or flows well. If I were brand new to FA I'd hear it and think "That's nice, why do I care who you, specifically, are"
It just doesn't flow well to identify an individual. Now going through the challenge, I get it - but not in this format.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on September 15, 2010, 06:31:53 pm
Oh yes. It makes much more sense in context of the challenge. It happens after you overhear a conversation between tbone and the holovid.
Title: Holovid Feedback
Post by: Tbone on September 15, 2010, 10:31:29 pm
Quote from: "Saint"
ps. ok I listened to it again later and either its a different version or I'm getting used to it. I may have been over harsh. Its not bad