The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 14, 2009, 07:25:10 pm
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Okay all you Furious Angels.
First of all I am still glad to be in here.
But for sure not everything is perfect. I want to be honest here and want you to be honest too. With everything you think. We gotta do this IMO and I really need to say this, because I don't want to have it in my mind only.
We have some real lacks in fighting and our reputation.
It happens too many times that FA outnumbers someone but still loses. It happens too many times that FA just do not fight for their stuff.
I don't want to blame guys for gathering - not at all! It's wunderful they do it and - to take to extreme example "Jarimus" - he is one of the strongest FA. In Output and everything.
Now, I am EU Player that's right. So I haven't played with all of you ingame, haven't even spoken alot to some of you.
But there is a thing, we need to see. We have clans laughing at us, because we failed so much in fight. And we don't care and go fight mobs?
Where is the elite force? Where is the outnumbered army that still owns?
And don't, don't, don't, don't say "we need to raise our skills". My skills aren't that high, but I can honestly say that I am not a bad pvper, that I am able to own alot.
It's alot in the fight we have to practise.
Sol, who is into pvp too, spoke up today with saying we need to travel around the world.
And yeah. That's it. Leave the starting area and fight. Before we do that, we could do some little pvp runs. But please. I wrote that a lot of times now, we need to go and PvP :/.
I am hunting solo atm all day - and I notice I am becoming better (practise is the key!) - and I allready thought about making the world travel alone.
So please. We need a leading Hand (TBONE!) and we need to get all the fucking embarrising fights to be forgotten. We need to get stronger. We really really need to. Damn it. :/
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step 1: try to organise partys not just saying you wanna do
step 2: you have more experience than others. make pvp introduction sessions. ppl who havent done a lot often dont know basics (that inclues me) besides running for the enemy and hit them.
step 3: make pvp tutorials/guides here in the forum. write down why you do what, how you do it. why you are makeing the desitions at a special or general situation. share the information you have.
my 5 cents
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This is some nice basics, covers some stuff that everyone should know. Putting theory into habit is made by practice. I'd be glad to go PvPing with you all sometimes, tonight's raid on Tughri was awesome, I can try helping everyone out with some tactics with Redx's help sometime.
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wow I never thought I would read anything like that. FA was always the faction/guild that would go in a battle with 7 people and still win against 11 people. I guess things have changed more since MXO than I thought :( Maybe we can fix this.
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Yeah, I somewhat agree. It was like this when I left, anyway. We had other goals at that time - to get some territory, build up our hamlet, start working on getting some decent armor and weapons, and skill up. All that was in prep for now, when we should be fighting A LOT more. I already addressed this in another thread and said this:
"Ideally we'll start a movement - a strict resistance to all enemy races and clans. We need to become pests, plaguing the enemy guilds of Mirandil. This means ganking clans like IMAGE that have territory in Mirandil on a regular basis, as well as Vindicators. This means annoying gank guilds like Winterblades that are up to no good. We'll find like minded people and invite them to roll with us when we go on these raids"
What I was worried about when allying with Oromea and the others is potentially exactly what happened - you'd all move into their city and, under their protection, just farm away or help them fight things. We HAVE to be a strong force on our own. I haven't been around this month, so I can't tell you why we're having difficulty in combat. Normally we're very quick to learn the best methods and strategies. I can say it will be a top priority when I return. Like I said in that other thread, we're turning easy mode off. It's sink or swim time.
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*CHEER!*
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Here's some basic pvp tips that should help out:
- When in enemy / unfamiliar territory, crouch walk / use the terrain to your advantage to the max. Can't tell you how many mounted gank squads Arch and I avoided doing this, hell I snuck up on someone on my damn horse once doing this!
- If you do spot enemies, always try to work your way to their backside. If you have power thrust attack for your weapon skills, doing this attack first will maximize your damage on them as it'll do stupid amounts of damage on that player right off the bat, giving you that edge against them.
- Don't swing wildly! Watch how the other player is attacking / dodging. If you have a hostile fucker on you, just block! You'll destroy their stamina this way, making it easier for you later on to finish them off while they try to run for it. Otherwise it's all about timing! Use the horizontal swing only if you know you won't hit friendlies, otherwise stick to vertical!
- You can block arrows / magic. So if things seems bad and you need to back off to heal or what have you, don't put your back to the enemy! Just time your blocks and you'll effectively reduce any incoming damage you'll take.
- If on mounts, lean your attacks. If you've messed around with your default key bindings (like I did), look for 'lean left' and 'lean right' and assign buttons to them. This makes mounted combat much easier and mad fun! Hell, I prefer mounted combat over on foot now tbh cause of how effective and satisfying it is once you get the hang of it.
- Keep an eye on your mounts health! Lots of folks will try to be pricks and kill your mount, so try to keep an eye on it while fighting. If your mounts health goes below 50%, try to take cover somewhere so it can heal up.
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heal often!
parry often!
don't be a pussy!
don't waste attacks and stamina!
perfect your hotbar!
hotbar your mount and potions!
rebind hotbar switching to CTRL - [num] instead of sprint so that you can hotbar while sprinting.
Practice!
Wear your armor! (who cares if you lose it)
Multi weapon! (use melee when needed and use ranged when needed)
Use archery! lol
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All of the above is seriously needed information for me. I'll admit it; I've been a scaredy-cat when it comes to PVP, because I have adopted exploring and gathering and crafting way too readily. Everyone always seems more menacing than me, because they've practised, so everytime - I run.
I'm going to practise my parry from now on, and work on some archery for distance. Too often has someone tried to attack me and I've legged it because all I have on me is a bloody polearm, no armour and no shield. Useless!
No longer. Time to FIGHT!
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(If the servers are ever up when I want to play...)
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For some reason, this thread made me think of...
"When you hear the whispers.... run,"
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All the things said above a true.
Some more guidelines:
Download MacroExpress or any macro programm or have a g15 keyboard or another keyboard/mouse that can be used for programming marcos.
Make a Macro for:
- Melee (Including: Hotbar Switch to melee skils with potions 'n stuff, equipping your melee weapon)
- Magic (Inclubding: Switch to your Magic hotbar with all the skills and potions 'n stuff, equipping your magic weapon)
- Archer (Including: same as above ;) )
- If you use 2h, then another macro for 1h + shield, for parry!
Thats really good.
If you have whirlwind, make a makro that switches to your melee hotbar, equippes your melee weapon, instant casts whirlwind, this is really helpful if kiting around a player
- USE ARCHERY! Load your bow while sprinting, quick turn, shoot, turn back forward, load, quick turn around, shoot, quick turn back forward and so on
Dont be a panic little monkey! Circle around a player sprinting if you want, but watch what he is doing. If you sprint like him, you will lose, because he will hit you in the back. So stop, hit him in the back, move backwards, sprint, circle and hit again.
Jump if you have to. Jump over a hit. But DONT SPAM the space key. Every hit (if you are in the air or not does not matter) will costs the stam for a jump!) Jump are expensive, so watch out!
- GET MANA TO STAMINA, GET RESIN! CAST IT!
Don't don't don't ever go on LOW Stamina. Never! Take Resin with you.
Next point: Never go without food, potions, mount and arrows. This WILL save your life!
Unpack your mount if some chases you. Don't think they will get it. If they chase you, press the hotbar key with your mount, and get on the mount. Look backwards and see the arrows, make a quick turn and go straight forward. Also try to get trees between you and your enemys. the trees are your safe lines.
Don't chase! If an enemy is nearly down and he has this shining armor. You could get it WOAH. DONT DONT DONT PANIC. Betetr stay back. There will be more. Or he will get his stats up as you are chasing and pwn your. Leave the place, leave him run. You will see him again. Better then dieing. Don't try to kill him FOR ANYTHING. Better stay, let him go. If you chase him and running on low stam then you get pwned by his friends. Stay calm always.
And ... if someone attacks you. Don't panic. See what he is doing and for god sakes, as you are good quipped always, hit back and own him. if there are more. Mount and get away. If you lose, no prob, you will loot alot of stuff yourselves.
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Lots of good things had been said here.
on the defensive side...
If you are losing a fight and need to recover always remember TERRAIN is your friend. It's always good to carry a second set of gear to wear (either cloth/padded or robes) so as to switch to them when i gotta stealth and hide.
A good way to get someone off your back is to parry and wait for them to get close, then Knock em back and while they are in the air it gives you precious seconds to
A. cast heal self
B. cast Mana to Stam
C. find an area so they lose sight of you.
Don't ever underestimate the utility of knockback.
As for hiding, Hoods and robes are EXTREMELY useful for blending in with the surroundings and are ideal for stealth. Also if you have launch or can manuever your jumps like a mad monkey, a good place to hide is always somewhere high up.
Most people NEVER look in trees or up in general so it's always a really good way to hide plus the leaves and such of trees give a good amount of cover.
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Robes hoods for sure help with regards to stealth...Arch and I literally hide from people in plain sight just hugging corners of walls that have the same color as the robes / hiding around trees / shrubs crouched. And yes, you do indeed receive a field power bonus if you have the high ground, so many people have self-esteem issues or something cause they're always looking down.
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A problem is we haven't been involved. Occasionally we'll help out defend Tughri but with the 1/2 communication we have going on we can't tell what the rest of their allies are doing. If you actively seek PvP you'll get better no matter who you're with. There have been at least 5 instances where Oromea has asked me along on a PvP run with them and I ask the Angels who are on if we want to bring a party, Oreo's invitation and all, but I'm usually the only one who ends up going. Sure we don't like them that much but if we're gonna have our own party and do our own thing with them then why not? Being elite is fine, but exclusivity won't always work. Often times there are as little as 3-4 people on and that's it. It's nice that it's not too often that I'm completely alone online among you all and appreciate that. If you're more visually based in terms of looking for tips and common sense the Oreo Val Roth made a video highlighting what should be the basics of PvP encounters, nothing fancy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmAyV75tOLA
The 4 or 5 people I've seen involved have all posted with tips and tricks that are useful and that's good to see, maybe sometime I'll try to write something like that up based on my own experiences. Good luck to all, looking forward to developments.
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Oromea can suck it.
I don't care if they are "good people" or not (really, who thinks they aren't a "good person?") I'm not interested in playing with them over playing with us.
And I wouldn't say Oromea has ever gone out of their way to "invite" us anywhere. You just happen to be in their TeamSpeak server when a party forms - that isn't really an FA invitation. Yeah, we're "welcome" to go, but if you are doing something else at the moment why bother.
They need more Alfar alliances because they don't have enough.
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I have personally lost nearly all respect for Oramea. I use their city resources, but I'm not there to make friends and I don't try to. I am aware that this "peace" will soon end and eventually I predict we will be on not so friendly terms. So I am taking advantage of the situation while it is there. I am willing to pack up and move anytime as long as I am able to gather the resources to do my job somewhere else. You know I am more than willing to ride out to no-where and gather my resources, so I am not afraid. There is just no point at the moment because even we are not completely united.
Honestly, there is no reason we couldn't claim Kings Holdfast as "our territory" to use, protect and defend. The only thing is that we wouldn't have to worry about defending it from being taken. There are always plenty of enemies to fight there on a daily basis. I'm not saying we stick to just that area. We should search out our racial enemies as well, but I think if we make our presence know there, we have the numbers now to make gank squads think twice in and around that area....which would encompass our Hamlet of course. (but that is just a thought or suggestion)
Once we begin following our original mission, we will need people who can provide us with equiptment because it won't be readily available from other clans anymore. Yes, while mobs do drop higher level equiptment, that same equiptment created by crafters is better quality. Even if crafters don't seem that viable right now, I see than changing in the future.
The biggest mistake we can make in FA is thinking only in the here and now. Decisions need to be made looking at the big picture. While I agree and would be up for hunting our enemies more often without having to stop and ask "is it ok to kill these guys" before killing them, keep in mind that elite forces are not trained in a day and they are built upon a solid support system (crafters). Every solid structure needs a solid foundation and in everything, there must be balance.
With that in mind, first and foremost, we need to get our heads out of the "political" game and stick to our own "politics". Over-emphasis on politics turns people into pussies and causes people to second guess their actions instead of doing what needs to be done decisively. In this respect, we need to ALL be on the same page. Everyone of us who join up with FA knew before they accepted membership exactly what FA stood for and what our directives are, but now we're buddy buddying up with those we swore to strike down because of what?
Even in MxO, FA has often taken a bit of an unpopular stance, but we've stuck to what we believed. So, if you intend to remain FA, prepare to be hated, hunted and shit-talked without responding in kind.
Now as I see it, we're not simply trying to stand out in game just for the sake of standing out. I think we need to have the integrity to stick to what we stand for regardless of what everyone else is doing. If we do that, standing out from the crowd is going to be a by product.
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Well, this got derailed real fast.
I'm sure we've all made our point and stance with Oromea, despite them being a valuable asset when it comes to man power... Our views are quite different then their current ones. Does this make them assholes? Not at all. They aren't bad at PVP either. They can stand their ground.
Anyway let's try to bring this back a more productive topic such as tactics for PVP, dates/times and maybe even specific targets to search for (Kill Cult, Anyone?).
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<3 mounted combat. It is t3h sexyness. That is all.
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<3 mounted combat. It is t3h sexyness. That is all.
I've seen your mounted combat... and the dead horse that followed. ;)
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For that matter.. unless people plan on donating a good bit to the crafters (jarimus cannot be our only strong crafter) we have to realize that it takes a lot of time to get particular skills up, !!!and yes I know being good at PVP doesn't require amazing skill levels!! but if a particular person or persons are concentrating on crafting, farming, crafting, and farming then they really don't have as much time as everyone else that depends on them to do their crafting for them to go out and PVP and get better at it..
Lets say for hypothetical, I am able to get on 1 hour a day everyday on average, getting 1 to 2 steadgrass sometimes takes a whole freakin hour... then, to make a decent amount of arrows or farm a decent amount of arrows by yourself it takes an hour or more to make the amount of arrows you can burn through in 10 minutes of good PVP..
Well, then, hypothetically, there is two out of my good 5 to 6 days of in game time taken up to get a freakin mount and arrows.... by myself..
Now I know that I am one and a half weeks new to the game and my skill levels are probably close to lowest in the faction for some areas..
This is why we have a faction, guild, clan, whatever you want to call it.. We have our crafters, we have our PvPers, we have the people that are going to be in between.. Thats what makes this work...
Now I don't disagree that we have to get better at PvP.. its a must.. you can't be a good faction in a PvP MMO if you suck at PvP... However, practice makes perfect and saying aww.. don't go practice on NPC mobs.. well.. my strength and stamina and perfecting my attack has greatly increased because of NPC mobs..
And we don't care and go fight mobs?
There is such a thing as a good BALANCE of players.. saying we should be only focused on PvP and nothing else is ridiculous and will absolutely keep us from being the best Faction, Clan, Alliance, in Darkfall...
We were the best Faction in MxO because we could do everything, PvP like no other, craft anything the game had to offer, we stood our ground on our beliefs and stuck with our members because we all fought for the same goal... We owned at anything we set our minds to.. MxO Olympics, Live Events, pvping the damn Mods (Broin)......
Saying that, PvP seems to be our weakest point now and that is what, I am assuming, we will be concentrating on until we get everyone up to speed..
Good Luck and see everyone in game.. sorry for the long post but I felt it needed to be said...
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I agree with you on some points.
And I did not wanted to say, that we should stop doing PvE - I killed these big mobs with some FAs and Oromeas.
But, what I noticed was a general attitude of some. After an embarrising pvp loss and even people laughing at FA it's like nobody cares. And I don't mean to trash talk back or anything but to strike back. But that didn't come to any of the peoples mind.
I know I make faults too. And I know I was overreacting in some cases in the past, but for sure, that is a point we have to think of.
But it's getting a lot better. No Cry, Me, Gypsy, (dont remember everyone) had some fights yesterday and it worked better.
So yeah.
But there is one thing I disagree, Heironymus.
You said, you got a lot better because of fighting NPC mobs.
That's a point I disagree. Fighting versus player is a completly different fight. The parry/stam management is different. Everything.
I had to learn this too. I really sucked at the beginning in PvP. I thought I do pretty good with parry and all this things. But I failed. Until I practiced. Practiced. Learned from an ingame friend, who was a really owning solo player. Practiced. Ah, and I did a lot pf practice. btw. ;)
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But there is one thing I disagree, Heironymus.
You said, you got a lot better because of fighting NPC mobs.
That's a point I disagree. Fighting versus player is a completly different fight. The parry/stam management is different. Everything.
I had to learn this too. I really sucked at the beginning in PvP. I thought I do pretty good with parry and all this things. But I failed. Until I practiced. Practiced. Learned from an ingame friend, who was a really owning solo player. Practiced. Ah, and I did a lot pf practice. btw. ;)
I actually have to agree with Heironymus. He's saying that you need a degree of skill (Rest up to a particular level, Weapon up to a certain level, Mana Missile/Archery up to a certain level) before you can even think of being able to participate in PVP. If the person your fighting has double the amount of Stamina than you because he has a higher skill and a better regen rate, then he will win over you, no matter how much more skill you may have.
Getting those basic skills comes from fighting mobs, crafting, and farming. Your Player Stats increase much more dramatically from gathering herbs, mining, logging, and smithing versus killing people in PVP. If a person has double the strength than you, and can thus hit you for twice the amount of damage that you are able to do, no matter your skill, you're still going to lose, because he needs to hit you only half the amount of times that you hit him.
I've been farming to get my stats up, fighting mobs to get my stats up, because those are a more consistent way to level those abilities up. Once I get those up to an acceptable level, then you can bet your ass I will be focusing on PVP and the healing side of it and learning the ins and outs of it all.
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But there is one thing I disagree, Heironymus.
You said, you got a lot better because of fighting NPC mobs.
That's a point I disagree. Fighting versus player is a completly different fight. The parry/stam management is different. Everything.
I had to learn this too. I really sucked at the beginning in PvP. I thought I do pretty good with parry and all this things. But I failed. Until I practiced. Practiced. Learned from an ingame friend, who was a really owning solo player. Practiced. Ah, and I did a lot pf practice. btw. ;)
I actually have to agree with Heironymus. He's saying that you need a degree of skill (Rest up to a particular level, Weapon up to a certain level, Mana Missile/Archery up to a certain level) before you can even think of being able to participate in PVP. If the person your fighting has double the amount of Stamina than you because he has a higher skill and a better regen rate, then he will win over you, no matter how much more skill you may have.
Getting those basic skills comes from fighting mobs, crafting, and farming. Your Player Stats increase much more dramatically from gathering herbs, mining, logging, and smithing versus killing people in PVP. If a person has double the strength than you, and can thus hit you for twice the amount of damage that you are able to do, no matter your skill, you're still going to lose, because he needs to hit you only half the amount of times that you hit him.
It's not the skills-up I disagreed with him. That's things I can accept. But "perfecting attack" or parry... - that's the point I disagree. But I might be wrong, I am just speaking because of my experience.
And no with double strength you do not hit double damage.
Stats actually have really really little effect.
A thing that does have a lot of effect is the weapon mastery. With 75+ in wep Skill and Mastery you do a lot damage. But this is not what most have. And still then. There are ways to fight. E.g. not letting him come to melee. Or try to not let him come often. I did this today, tho :o
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I have to say that since I've started playing this game there needs to be a balance.
It's true that someone with higher level skills will have the upper hand (Mana to Stam comes to mind). Either way, PvE is NOT a bad way to gain practice ingame because of the fact that there is almost always someone waiting to jump you at any given time.
During this moment is when you have time to either shine and fight and learn from it or run away and learn how to use your surroundings.
to be brutally honest I think it's harder to stay alive while running away because of the fact that you have your back turned =/
Almost everyone that has tried to run away without a mount has died by my hands (this of course is after having pvp experience). Even some ON mounts have as well... I think it takes more skill to get away safely and hide than to fight back.
Either way, the most important thing is that you LEARN from it. Don't just get pissed about what happened... learn from it.
Yesterday I got taken down to REALLY low health, I popped out my mount and try to ride away. They managed to hit me instead of my mount and killed me and took both my mounts. as Sol as my witness, I was fuming.
Today, Setun and Ana fucked up a SG of I think it was Undead lords and I came down and arrowed him to almost death. He popped out a deathpig and the night before played through my head.
I killed him and took his mount.
You're greatest skill comes from playing the game to its fullest. Don't limit yourself, Darkfall gives you the options and the freedom to do just about anything. Take advantage of it, this is how we will prevail above all odds.
He was from Vamp. He also had a full set of plate and a second mount on him. It was sweet.
Edit: Ok... i must have been tired since i quoted my own thread and left a good chunk out... or something went really wonky... cause i don't remember posting that. =x
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I have to say that since I've started playing this game there needs to be a balance.
It's true that someone with higher level skills will have the upper hand (Mana to Stam comes to mind). Either way, PvE is NOT a bad way to gain practice ingame because of the fact that there is almost always someone waiting to jump you at any given time.
During this moment is when you have time to either shine and fight and learn from it or run away and learn how to use your surroundings.
to be brutally honest I think it's harder to stay alive while running away because of the fact that you have your back turned =/
Almost everyone that has tried to run away without a mount has died by my hands (this of course is after having pvp experience). Even some ON mounts have as well... I think it takes more skill to get away safely and hide than to fight back.
Either way, the most important thing is that you LEARN from it. Don't just get pissed about what happened... learn from it.
Yesterday I got taken down to REALLY low health, I popped out my mount and try to ride away. They managed to hit me instead of my mount and killed me and took both my mounts. as Sol as my witness, I was fuming.
Today, Setun and Ana fucked up a SG of I think it was Undead lords and I came down and arrowed him to almost death. He popped out a deathpig and the night before played through my head.
I killed him and took his mount.
You're greatest skill comes from playing the game to its fullest. Don't limit yourself, Darkfall gives you the options and the freedom to do just about anything. Take advantage of it, this is how we will prevail above all odds.
You know that I love you now, ya?